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Old 11-03-2021, 11:29 AM   #3726
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Or you are wrong. I posted a Tesla thread of owners over the past two months that goes back over a dozen pages of similar build issues that quite frankly are appalling. All of them with very similar issues at delivery. You have nothing and what reported data? I know for a fact BMW at least has been above average for years now in vehicle reliability according to CR and JD Power. Sure you can dig up a post here and there from some owners of BMW, MB, etc that had some flaws at delivery but nothing like that 32 page thread. I'm not trolling here as the model 3 performance is still an option for me but I have to admit I've never seen anything like it in decades of being on numerous automotive forums. I have a Bronco Outerbanks on order and there's a lot of issues at Bronco forums (roof of course the biggest) but it's nothing like this. I invite anyone curious to check out that Tesla link page by page and tell me if you think that's minor compared to other Brands at delivery.
Very few people actually care. I have the crinkle around the inside of my door seals too. You know how many times I've thought of it? Never. You can get your super well built Blackberry or you can get an iPhone and complain that you can feel a little lip around the glass and they didn't glue it down right. Going back to the Blackberry then??? Uhm, no thanks.

But I don't know why it bothers you. You can always order one then reject the delivery if you find it unsatisfactory, and if you're not thinking of ordering, why do you even care? At this point, even getting a delivery is a challenge consider delivery times are going out to next August/September, so save yourself the wait and don't order.
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Old 11-03-2021, 11:41 AM   #3727
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Or you are wrong. I posted a Tesla thread of owners over the past two months that goes back over a dozen pages of similar build issues that quite frankly are appalling. All of them with very similar issues at delivery. You have nothing and what reported data? I know for a fact BMW at least has been above average for years now in vehicle reliability according to CR and JD Power. Sure you can dig up a post here and there from some owners of BMW, MB, etc that had some flaws at delivery but nothing like that 32 page thread. I'm not trolling here as the model 3 performance is still an option for me but I have to admit I've never seen anything like it in decades of being on numerous automotive forums. I have a Bronco Outerbanks on order and there's a lot of issues at Bronco forums (roof of course the biggest) but it's nothing like this. I invite anyone curious to check out that Tesla link page by page and tell me if you think that's minor compared to other Brands at delivery.

As stated, forum posts are anecdotal.

Here is what I was basing my statements on:

NHTSA safety recalls -

Tesla Model 3 (1)
Recall date
2021-05-24
Recall no.
21V387000
Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2019-2021 Model 3 and 2020-2021 Model Y vehicles. The brake caliper bolts may be loose, allowing the brake caliper to separate and contact the wheel rim.


BMW X3 series (5):
Fuel system, gasoline: Storage: Tank assembly
Recall date
2021-03-23
Recall no.
21V199000
BMW of North America, LLC (BMW) is recalling certain 2021 X3 sDrive30i, X3 xDrive30i, X3 M40i, X3M, and X4, and 2021 X4 xDrive30i vehicles. The inlet check valve weld may fail, allowing the filling pipe to separate from the fuel tank. Cases of reported fire and fire risk.



Back over prevention: sensing system: camera
Recall date
2021-02-18
Recall no.
21V096000
BMW of North America, LLC (BMW) is recalling certain 2019-2021 X3 sDrive30i, X3 xDrive30i, X3 M40i, X3M, X4 xDrive30i, X4 M40i, M550i, X4M, X5 sDrive40i, X5 xDrive40i, X5 xDrive50i, X5M, X5 M50i, X7 xDrive40i, X7 xDrive50i, X7 M50i, Alpina XB7, 330i, 330i xDrive, M340i, M340i xDrive, and 8 Series Coupe, Convertible and Grand Coupe, 840i, 840i xDrive, M850i xDrive, M8, 2020-2021 530e, 530e xDrive, 330e, 330e xDrive, 745Le, 745Le xDrive, X5 xDrive45e, X3 xDrive30e, X6 sDrive40i, X6 xDrive40i, X6 xDrive50i, X6 M50i, X6M, 530i, 530i xDrive, 540i, 540i xDrive, M550i xDrive, M5, 740i, 740Li, 740Li xDrive, M760i Drive, M760Li xDrive, 750Li xDrive Alpina, Alpina B7 xDrive, and 2021 4 Series Coupe 430i, 430i xDrive, M440i xDrive vehicles. When shifting into Reverse, a small portion of the rearview image may be obscured, or the screen may not illuminate. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) number 111, "Rear Visibility."



Back over prevention: sensing system: camera
Recall date
2021-09-29
Recall no.
20V598000
BMW of North America, LLC (BMW) is recalling certain 2020-2021 X3 sDrive 30i, X3 xDrive 30i, X3M 40i, X3 xDrive 30e, X4 xDrive 30i, X4M 40i, 530i, 540i, 540i xDrive, M550i xDrive, M5, 550e, 550e xDrive, and 550e iPerformance vehicles. A small portion of the rearview image may be slightly obscured. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 111, "Rear Visibility."



Electrical system: Propulsion system: Traction battery
Recall date
2021-09-29
Recall no.
20V601000
BMW of North America, LLC (BMW) is recalling certain 2020-2021 530e, 530e xDrive, 530e iPerformance and X3 xDrive30e and MINI Cooper Countryman All4 SE, 2020 BMW i8, and 2021 330e, 330e xDrive, 745Le xDrive and X5 xDrive45e vehicles. Debris may have entered one or more of the hybrid battery cells during their production.



Electrical system: 12v/24v/48v battery
Recall date
2021-08-17
Recall no.
20V490000
BMW of North America, LLC (BMW) is recalling certain 2021 330e and X5 xDrive45e, 2020-2021 X3 xDrive30e, and 2020 MINI Countryman SE ALL4 vehicles. Loose welding beads may form a conductive path between the hybrid battery cells which could lead to a short-circuit and fire.

Last edited by mhoward1; 11-03-2021 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:01 PM   #3728
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Appalling is that 121 mph @ 1/8th mile. No wonder body panels and interior bits don't line up right.
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:23 PM   #3729
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Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
I think compared to the things being seen on the 2020/2021 BMW X series and the current MB C-class (including the AMG), these all look pretty minor.
Exactly. Look at this Lincoln Navigator brand new on the lot:









And this Jaguar:



and This Acura:





All cars have issues if you look close enough. Whenever you trade or sale your depreciating asset after a few years no one will look at your panel gaps .

Look at the Taycan forum they have lots of issues and they sell a fraction of cars compared to the Model 3: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/fo...calls-tsbs.15/


My mother is selling her car to Carvana and she is losing $3,750 after 3 years of ownership and 20k miles. What strange world we live in . She is going to upgrade to the Model 3 Long Range, she used to have the Mid Range model that was sold for only for a few months.

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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
I'm living in Lexus land now.. talk about a vehicle that has amazing build quality.. Honestly though, the Toyotas I've sat in have amazing build quality too; granted that's a very different situation than Tesla Vs. Luxury, but worth noting.

I still want the Tesla batteries, motors & controllers in another manufacturers vehicle.
haha My Lexus IS-F with 40k miles had a leaking water pump at 30k miles and melting dash and door panels with 40k miles. Each door panel was priced at $1K a piece and Lexus refused to cover them under the warranty but they did cover the IS350 and IS200 door panels lol. That left a really sour taste in my month about getting a Lexus in the future.

Last edited by juanmedina; 11-03-2021 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:58 PM   #3730
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I wonder why they don't run the Plaid in Sport mode until aftermarket has released brakes or Tesla track package goes on sell. It should be more controllable and as quick as Taycan Turbo S on the straight and maybe lets you have some power on the curves without the traction control kicking in.


Last edited by juanmedina; 11-03-2021 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-03-2021, 02:02 PM   #3731
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I wonder why they don't run the Plaid in Sport mode until aftermarket has released brakes or Tesla track package goes on sell. It should be more controllable and as quick as Taycan Turbo S on the straight and maybe lets you have some power on the curves without the traction control kicking in.

https://youtu.be/oXwNGOJuC8A
Why bother at all now. Rear motor power vectoring, track mode with increased regen braking and configurable stability control, track upgraded brakes are all inbound from Tesla. MPP will likely have to retune their upgrade package then anyway.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:57 AM   #3732
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Why bother at all now. Rear motor power vectoring, track mode with increased regen braking and configurable stability control, track upgraded brakes are all inbound from Tesla. MPP will likely have to retune their upgrade package then anyway.
I can see Tesla releasing a track mode but do you think they will release a track package? I remember Elon tweeting about that they cannot handle the installation of the the track package right now but I really wonder if they are even going to release one to the public .
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:12 AM   #3733
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I can see Tesla releasing a track mode but do you think they will release a track package? I remember Elon tweeting about that they cannot handle the installation of the the track package right now but I really wonder if they are even going to release one to the public .
I think all they actually need to do is flip a bit remotely to enable the track menu, the rest can be done elsewhere. None of it needs a lift anyway, so can be done by mobile service. I'd expect it to be a low volume service as well.
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Old 11-04-2021, 02:28 PM   #3734
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Old 11-04-2021, 03:14 PM   #3735
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Exactly. Look at this Lincoln Navigator brand new on the lot:

All cars have issues if you look close enough. Whenever you trade or sale your depreciating asset after a few years no one will look at your panel gaps .
To be fair, most of those paint issues you're looking at could very well have been as a result of damage in shipping that doesn't need to be disclosed to the end buyer. But there's really no excuse for using home depot trim to secure the cooling system.
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Old 11-04-2021, 03:25 PM   #3736
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To be fair, most of those paint issues you're looking at could very well have been as a result of damage in shipping that doesn't need to be disclosed to the end buyer. But there's really no excuse for using home depot trim to secure the cooling system.
I love it when a post starts with "to be fair"
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Old 11-07-2021, 04:38 PM   #3737
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OH THE HUMANITY! Tesla Owner Makes Others Wait THREE HOURS At CarPark After Battery Dies

Shoppers at Britain's biggest shopping center were outraged after a Tesla ran out of battery on a car park entry ramp and blocked the cars behind it for three hours.

An enraged shopper, identified only as Henry took to Reddit to share pictures of the scene that happened on Wednesday, Nov.3, evening at London's Westfield Shopping Centre, reports MyLondon.

He said: "Perfect, a Tesla ran out of battery and stopped at the ramp of a 5 story car park at Westfield. It has been three hours and counting."

One of the pictures he shared showed a tailback of cars waiting around the sloped spiral exit ramp.
The next picture, though slightly motion-blurred, showed the black Tesla Model S pulled over to the side of the ramp. It can be clearly seen in the picture that there was still not enough room for the waiting vehicles to pass.

https://www.latintimes.com/tesla-car...3-hours-493159

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Old 11-08-2021, 07:11 AM   #3738
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
OH THE HUMANITY! Tesla Owner Makes Others Wait THREE HOURS At CarPark After Battery Dies

Shoppers at Britain's biggest shopping center were outraged after a Tesla ran out of battery on a car park entry ramp and blocked the cars behind it for three hours.

An enraged shopper, identified only as Henry took to Reddit to share pictures of the scene that happened on Wednesday, Nov.3, evening at London's Westfield Shopping Centre, reports MyLondon.

He said: "Perfect, a Tesla ran out of battery and stopped at the ramp of a 5 story car park at Westfield. It has been three hours and counting."

One of the pictures he shared showed a tailback of cars waiting around the sloped spiral exit ramp.
The next picture, though slightly motion-blurred, showed the black Tesla Model S pulled over to the side of the ramp. It can be clearly seen in the picture that there was still not enough room for the waiting vehicles to pass.

https://www.latintimes.com/tesla-car...3-hours-493159

Why they didn't put the car on tow mode and push/roll the car so other cars could go by?
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:34 AM   #3739
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Good thing ICE vehicles never run out of fuel.

(and before someone says "but you can get a can of gas", almost all AAA and similar places have an EV jump box that gives most EVs 10+ miles of range in about 5 minutes).
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:58 AM   #3740
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I love it when a post starts with "to be fair"
So you really think that this paint issue came out of the factory?

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Old 11-08-2021, 01:29 PM   #3741
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So you really think that this paint issue came out of the factory?

Maybe it is just paint accumulation on the edge that they forgot to cleaned up. This is a Lexus LS that has excess paint and looks similar:

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Old 11-08-2021, 01:32 PM   #3742
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Those are all signs of a bad repaint job.
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Old 11-08-2021, 01:34 PM   #3743
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Good thing ICE vehicles never run out of fuel.
Beauty of running out of fuel: I'm basically never more than 5 miles from a gas station, such that I never have to worry about checking my gas gauge until it beeps at me that it's empty. I don't have to put forethought into my trips. Whenever the light comes on, I just hop off at whatever exit, stop for 5 minutes, and I'm good to go for another 300 miles.

People who actually run out of gas to the point their cars stall are top tier retarded and shouldn't really be considered IMO.

OTOH, I completely empathize with people who want that same level of convenience out of electric vehicles or people who haven't reworked their brain to plan around the EV shortcomings that they never had to deal with in cars in the previous century.
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Old 11-08-2021, 01:55 PM   #3744
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
Beauty of running out of fuel: I'm basically never more than 5 miles from a gas station, such that I never have to worry about checking my gas gauge until it beeps at me that it's empty. I don't have to put forethought into my trips. Whenever the light comes on, I just hop off at whatever exit, stop for 5 minutes, and I'm good to go for another 300 miles.

People who actually run out of gas to the point their cars stall are top tier retarded and shouldn't really be considered IMO.

OTOH, I completely empathize with people who want that same level of convenience out of electric vehicles or people who haven't reworked their brain to plan around the EV shortcomings that they never had to deal with in cars in the previous century.
A supercharger had a power outage on my road trip last summer, in the middle of a thunderstorm. I ended up having to cut the day short and stay at a hotel nearby so I could charge overnight. If we had fast charging every 5 miles it'd be no problem.
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Old 11-08-2021, 04:25 PM   #3745
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I do think it will get there, but with any infrastructure change it will take time. There are suppose to be 5K+ Supercharger and fast charger stations built in the next 24 months. Combine that with the 20k+ standard chargers to be built and there will be one available pretty much anywhere, but not always fast.
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:58 PM   #3746
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Beauty of running out of fuel: I'm basically never more than 5 miles from a gas station, such that I never have to worry about checking my gas gauge until it beeps at me that it's empty.
Imagine if you had a gas station in your garage with a butler that filled it up for you, left every morning on a tank charge, and still ran out of gas.

Oh, but that was the story from half a decade ago. They move so fast, if you haven't checked TODAY, then you are behind. Pick any popular route. NYC<->BOS, there is a supercharger stop on average every 18 miles. LAX<->LAS, every 20 miles. How do you run out of charge???

I haven't missed having to go to a gas stations in almost 7 years now. Never going back. But hey, everyone's got that friend who is always looking for a charger for their phone, no helping them. Someone should invent a butane powered phone for them.
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Old 11-09-2021, 01:30 AM   #3747
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Oh, but that was the story from half a decade ago. They move so fast, if you haven't checked TODAY, then you are behind. Pick any popular route. NYC<->BOS, there is a supercharger stop on average every 18 miles. LAX<->LAS, every 20 miles. How do you run out of charge???
Imagine taking 4+ 400 mile (one way) trips every year and having to stop for a ****ing hour or two to charge. You conveniently left out the most important part of that comment: "in 5 minutes"
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:45 AM   #3748
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Imagine taking 4+ 400 mile (one way) trips every year and having to stop for a ****ing hour or two to charge. You conveniently left out the most important part of that comment: "in 5 minutes"
For most with the current generation of EVs that stop is 15-20 minutes now. It is rough for those that don't have superchargers in the route, but that is changing rapidly.

The current argument now is "that's only to 80 to 90%!!" But how many fill their tanks to 100%. How many clicks does someone have to endure to get the gas to the rim of the filler tube.

Last edited by mhoward1; 11-09-2021 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 11-09-2021, 08:20 AM   #3749
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For most with the current generation of EVs that stop is 15-20 minutes now. It is rough that donít have superchargers in the route, but that is changing rapidly.

The current argument now is ďthatís only to 80 to 90%!!Ē But how many fill their tanks to 100%. How many clicks does someone have to endure to get the gas to the rim of the filler tube.
yeah a 400 miles trip is a 15-20 minute stop on the Model 3 Long Range on my Plaid I probably only have to stop for 10 minutes.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:36 AM   #3750
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Imagine taking 4+ 400 mile (one way) trips every year and having to stop for a ****ing hour or two to charge. You conveniently left out the most important part of that comment: "in 5 minutes"
Like the others said, you don't have to stop for an hour. Actually, as of this summer it seems we're down to almost strictly opportunity charging. i.e. stop for bathroom/snacks and plug in while you go inside. Never wait for the car, the car waits for you. Doesn't even matter if you're at a sub-optimal SoC.

At this point the EV experience is not one of inconvenience, but luxury. Who could have seen that coming????
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