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Old 04-15-2022, 05:34 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Renault Hydrogen concept set for May 19 debut



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H2-powered concept to also be built from sustainable materials

Renault has released a second tease of an all-new concept that it will use to showcase its hydrogen fuel-cell technology and confirmed it will make its official debut on May 19.

Following on from the shadowy glimpse we were given back in February, the new teaser is less revealing, with the French car-maker posting nothing more than a pic of an illuminated Renault logo on a B-pillar.

The image also features a colour-shifting metallic paint but is too obscure to point towards anything else.

The earlier image, meanwhile, suggested the new concept will be for a large SUV that will sit potentially above the

Described as a "unique concept car embodying the group's sustainable development vision and commitments" it's thought the new concept will also be made of 100 per cent recycled or reclaimed material, as part of Renault's bid to cut waste.

The Renault Group has already announced that it has done a deal with American hydrogen fuel-cell specialist Plug Power to create both hydrogen fuel-cell-powered light commercials, hydrogen refuelling stations and even a source of carbon-free hydrogen.

It's thought the new concept could borrow tech from the Renault Master introduced in Europe last year that combined a 33kWh battery, a 30kW fuel cell and a 3-7kg (depending on wheelbase) hydrogen tank that delivers a range of up to 500km.

In the US Plug Power already runs a 100-strong network of hydrogen fuelling stations that sells around 40 tonnes of hydrogen a day.

As well as the Renault Master a further two light commercials will be introduced shortly, says the car-maker.

There's no word on whether Renault plans to build a production version of its hydrogen concept but all will be revealed on May 19.

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Old 04-15-2022, 12:30 PM   #2
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The more options, the better.

Need to find a better way to produce hydrogen though, that's why it's not a great option right now.
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Old 04-15-2022, 01:19 PM   #3
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Hydrogen will surpass electric like the puka-shell fad of the 2000s.
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Old 04-15-2022, 04:29 PM   #4
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Hydrogen will surpass electric like the puka-shell fad of the 2000s.
I mean, not to get too specific about the terminology, but hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are considered electric vehicles. They run on electricity, the difference is that instead of having batteries that are filled with electricity generated elsewhere, they have a fuel cell that creates electricity.

Currently hydrogen doesn't make sense. BEV's are 75% efficient, FCEV's are closer to 25% because of the energy wasted to create the hydrogen in the first place. We need a more sustainable way of generating hydrogen before fuel cell vehicles will have any future.
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Old 04-15-2022, 04:54 PM   #5
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The more options, the better.

Need to find a better way to produce hydrogen though, that's why it's not a great option right now.
Options for whom?
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Old 04-15-2022, 04:55 PM   #6
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I mean, not to get too specific about the terminology, but hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are considered electric vehicles. [...]
I was about to say the same thing.
Not to be confused with/for vehicles with an ICE that burns/consumes hydrogen.
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Old 04-15-2022, 07:26 PM   #7
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I mean, not to get too specific about the terminology, but hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are considered electric vehicles. They run on electricity, the difference is that instead of having batteries that are filled with electricity generated elsewhere, they have a fuel cell that creates electricity.

Currently hydrogen doesn't make sense. BEV's are 75% efficient, FCEV's are closer to 25% because of the energy wasted to create the hydrogen in the first place. We need a more sustainable way of generating hydrogen before fuel cell vehicles will have any future.
Realistically, the approach since all facets of energy and manufacturing is based on the consumption of Oil, the move would be to get a vehicle to have more of an efficient burn from gas. To increase mileage and performance. Porsche is already developing such a fuel. Lithium was okay for now, but its extraction leaving city sized holes where nothing will grow, the 100s of thousands of gallons of water just to extract one ton of lithium, and the immense cost to properly dispose of lithium, Its just as bad as gasoline vehicles. Not in Air pollution but toxic battery waste. In 10-15 years or so, we're going to see a new issue of landfill hybrids -> electric cars that will need special "Attention" in terms of disposal, which will surely experience cost build ups for waste disposal companies currently experiencing hiring/wage issues bc of the economy. Maybe Solid State batteries will make its way into the scene, semantics, anyway Lithium is a means to an end. Its a cash cow because of Govt Environmental Regs. And the cow can get skinny (as well as the environmental "situation") based on who's in the driver seat in Washington.
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Old 04-16-2022, 02:15 PM   #8
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There's going to have to be massive leaps in hydrogen technology if it ever wants to see the light of day in being the primary or even secondary source of energy for vehicles. I feel like the steps forward are baby steps while EV's continue to make solid traction forward.

I do agree that there also needs to be a massive innovation jump in term of EV batteries. Go look at how large the top 5 mining sites are and how big of a crate in the geography the make. Then extrapolate that out to even just 50% of all vehicles being EV. I could be wrong but it doesn't seem sustainable long term.
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Old 04-18-2022, 03:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
Realistically, the approach since all facets of energy and manufacturing is based on the consumption of Oil, the move would be to get a vehicle to have more of an efficient burn from gas. To increase mileage and performance. Porsche is already developing such a fuel. Lithium was okay for now, but its extraction leaving city sized holes where nothing will grow, the 100s of thousands of gallons of water just to extract one ton of lithium, and the immense cost to properly dispose of lithium, Its just as bad as gasoline vehicles. Not in Air pollution but toxic battery waste. In 10-15 years or so, we're going to see a new issue of landfill hybrids -> electric cars that will need special "Attention" in terms of disposal, which will surely experience cost build ups for waste disposal companies currently experiencing hiring/wage issues bc of the economy. Maybe Solid State batteries will make its way into the scene, semantics, anyway Lithium is a means to an end. Its a cash cow because of Govt Environmental Regs. And the cow can get skinny (as well as the environmental "situation") based on who's in the driver seat in Washington.
Porsche's fuel is energy intensive to create. Similar to the issues with Hydrogen.

You only fill a car up with lithium once, not every single tank. And the concern about lithium mines need to be taken in context... Oil spills happen. Are we just forgetting about deep water horizon? Or how about oil sands - lots of water use, lots of chemical runoff, etc. And pretty much every manufacturer with an EV is either actively recycling or will be soon. I recall reading that like 95% of the batteries are recyclable. Can't recycle gasoline...

Solid state batteries still use lithium, all that changes is the electrolyte.

Lithium batteries are what we have now. Fuel cells may be more attractive in the future if we can find an efficient way to make hydrogen and I'd be all for the switch, but right now it's too inefficient of a process. And refueling stations are extremely limited, while an EV can be charged anywhere you find an outlet.
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Old 04-18-2022, 05:55 PM   #10
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There's a contingent of posters here that eats corporate petroleum misinformation for breakfast. They love it.. it tastes manly and makes them feel like the world they live and breathe in is just as God intended.
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Old 04-18-2022, 11:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
Realistically, the approach since all facets of energy and manufacturing is based on the consumption of Oil, the move would be to get a vehicle to have more of an efficient burn from gas. To increase mileage and performance. Porsche is already developing such a fuel. Lithium was okay for now, but its extraction leaving city sized holes where nothing will grow, the 100s of thousands of gallons of water just to extract one ton of lithium, and the immense cost to properly dispose of lithium, Its just as bad as gasoline vehicles. Not in Air pollution but toxic battery waste. In 10-15 years or so, we're going to see a new issue of landfill hybrids -> electric cars that will need special "Attention" in terms of disposal, which will surely experience cost build ups for waste disposal companies currently experiencing hiring/wage issues bc of the economy. Maybe Solid State batteries will make its way into the scene, semantics, anyway Lithium is a means to an end. Its a cash cow because of Govt Environmental Regs. And the cow can get skinny (as well as the environmental "situation") based on who's in the driver seat in Washington.
The lithium and nickel can be recycled. Thereís actually a company that was on cnbc that recycles the lithium and nickel and by some sort of voodoo magic, Iíd actually able to decrease charging times and improve range efficiency.

EVís are not as harmful as oil. That said, I think there is a gross misconception/ perception that EVís are somehow night and day less impactful to the environment than ICE simply because they donít create emissions. Are they less harmful? Absolutely. But the mining for resources isnít exactly a pretty picture either
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