2021 VW Golf R

[h3llsp4wn]

Originally Posted by oichan

As for insurance, it should be cheap to insure the new Golf-R as there is no classification for the "R". I pay what normal Golf drivers pay on mine, my GTI was a lot more.

The civic type r is the same. It's considered a civic touring model.

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[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by h3llsp4wn

The civic type r is the same. It's considered a civic touring model.

It is, until claim frequency goes up. The the carrier does their research and figures out what it is. That’s what always happens. The WRX was initially just rated as an Impreza, the Evo was initially rated as a Lancer, etc.

I will say that the Golf R has a better shot since it’s less likely to be purchased by the demographic that is going to do stupid things that make insurance companies re-review a car and revise its rates.

[NighthawkSTI]

Interior is geared up to go all electric in a few years...even bentley announced last week that their entire line up will be fully electric by 2030.

NIO is expanding into Europe and unveiling a new Sedan in january, ton of money pouring into the electric car industry, so much that even the non electric mass production cars like this Golf or Golfs in general are taking design cues FROM NIO and Tesla LOL. The interior of this golf looks like a fully electric car LMAO.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

Interior is geared up to go all electric in a few years...even bentley announced last week that their entire line up will be fully electric by 2030.

NIO is expanding into Europe and unveiling a new Sedan in january, ton of money pouring into the electric car industry, so much that even the non electric mass production cars like this Golf or Golfs in general are taking design cues FROM NIO and Tesla LOL. The interior of this golf looks like a fully electric car LMAO.

Ok Jessica.

[murrdogg24]

literally nobody cares..

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

Interior is geared up to go all electric in a few years...even bentley announced last week that their entire line up will be fully electric by 2030.

NIO is expanding into Europe and unveiling a new Sedan in january, ton of money pouring into the electric car industry, so much that even the non electric mass production cars like this Golf or Golfs in general are taking design cues FROM NIO and Tesla LOL. The interior of this golf looks like a fully electric car LMAO.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

Interior is geared up to go all electric in a few years...

No it's not. VW already said that there will be no egolf in the mk8 platform. The ID.3 is the egolf equivalent. I have a feeling the ID.3 will make it to the US shortly after the switch to the MK8, since there will be no more egolf. Although if the ID.4 can sell well enough, maybe they just skip it? Who knows.

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by dwf137

No it's not. VW already said that there will be no egolf in the mk8 platform. The ID.3 is the egolf equivalent. I have a feeling the ID.3 will make it to the US shortly after the switch to the MK8, since there will be no more egolf. Although if the ID.4 can sell well enough, maybe they just skip it? Who knows.

oh I see, thank you for the info. My opinion on the interior designs coming out next year is that they are making them "look" like electric cars on the dash displays. I think that as more and more production of electric cars is ramping up(and at a very fast pace especially in china and much faster than Tesla did), that gasoline cars are going to have to compete indirectly and start making the technology at least appear to have characteristics of an EV, since there will be so SO many more by 2025, that cars that arent electric are going to look like ancient transportation. As the production and marketing of EVs grows exponentially , The interior designs of EV's are going to become more appealing. I mean "apple car play" can only go so far LOL.. NIO for example essentially comes with a robot on the dash called Nomi, that talks and looks in different directions in the car in response to commands...its like having a co pilot.

Ultimately after 2025 I think a lot of these gas cars that are employing design characteristics of EV's in the interiors will be going electric or at LEAST hybrid.

[JP Chestnut]

Is Derphawk diversifying into ruining VW threads too?

[4S-TURBO]

He is brainfreeze 2.0

[h3llsp4wn]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

It is, until claim frequency goes up. The the carrier does their research and figures out what it is. That’s what always happens. The WRX was initially just rated as an Impreza, the Evo was initially rated as a Lancer, etc.

The CTR came out in 2017 and its still just considered a civic touring trim as far as insurance is concerned. Its been 5 years now. Is that how long it took for the other cars mentioned?

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by h3llsp4wn

The CTR came out in 2017 and its still just considered a civic touring trim as far as insurance is concerned. Its been 5 years now. Is that how long it took for the other cars mentioned?

Judging from the CTR forums, most of those cars get driven very little and they're mostly owned by old guys due to the cost. I suspect they will stay cheap to insure until they get dirt cheap so that the young hooner types can afford to drive them all into the ground.

Source I used to price auto insurance.

[bicycle_wreck]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Judging from the CTR forums, most of those cars get driven very little and they're mostly owned by old guys due to the cost. I suspect they will stay cheap to insure until they get dirt cheap so that the young hooner types can afford to drive them all into the ground.

Source I used to price auto insurance.

Too true. Everything eventually goes the way of the SRT4 and the new age Mustang.

[oichan]

When I had a Honda Fit (MT) a long time ago, insurance was cheap in the beginning but then increased. I checked with my insurance guy and he said that their company (industry) was seeing many crashes caused by old people that was impacting my premium. I thought that was pretty funny.

[FaastLegacy]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Is Derphawk diversifying into ruining VW threads too?

I'm pretty sure this is the same guy that was stalking me a few years ago after I said the STI wasn't the greatest car in the world in a Gen Com thread. He finally got himself banned and came back and stalked me again.

I just put him on ignore and gone about my business. I ain't got time to argue with some muppet.

[bicycle_wreck]

Originally Posted by FaastLegacy

I'm pretty sure this is the same guy that was stalking me a few years ago after I said the STI wasn't the greatest car in the world in a Gen Com thread. He finally got himself banned and came back and stalked me again.

I just put him on ignore and gone about my business. I ain't got time to argue with some muppet.

There are several folks around here who think their basically stock, street-driven WRXs or STis are quicker than a late-model Accord or Camry in 90% of daily encounters. They're all mistaken.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by bicycle_wreck

There are several folks around here who think their basically stock, street-driven WRXs or STis are quicker than a late-model Accord or Camry in 90% of daily encounters. They're all mistaken.

I just test drove a 2020 WRX with the performance package having never driven the refreshed VA. It felt like a lower quality sportier version of the previous gen Accord. The gear lever and clutch were terrible but the ride was surprisingly nice. All in all, it was just a completely mediocre old feeling car. It's really weird that Subaru people consider them performance cars. Also, the "Recaro" seats are total ****.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

I just test drove a 2020 WRX with the performance package having never driven the refreshed VA. It felt like a lower quality sportier version of the previous gen Accord. The gear lever and clutch were terrible but the ride was surprisingly nice. All in all, it was just a completely mediocre old feeling car. It's really weird that Subaru people consider them performance cars. Also, the "Recaro" seats are total ****.

Did you try going WOT once it had warmed up? You can feel the ECU aggressively pulling timing.

My opinion:
Throttle is mapped too aggressively - makes it "feels quick" to normal people
stock tune is still garbage (I won't tune until warranty is up on vehicles) - come on Subaru, it's been 6 years, figure it out

Modern turbo cars continue to illustrated that the adage of "there is no replacement for displacement" is true; it can be simulated in a controlled environment (mag test where clutches are murdered).

In real world driving, it's a mixed bag at best, and typically NA stuff with more displacement/cylinders and similar peak output is better.
Similarly on the track, NA stuff tends to do better than turbo-4 stuff (unmodified that is).

The only advantage I've seen to turbo 4 vs. an NA application of similar power output is fuel economy during daily driving (not true of the EJ though, that thing is a thirsty one, almost as bad as a Wankel).
Example: NA 4, Turbo 4, NA 6.
In the turbo 4 from a given manufacturer, if you drive a certain way, you can approach the fuel economy of the NA 4, like on the highway with CC on at a reasonable speed where you are far away from waking the turbo up.
Similarly, with the Turbo 4 you can approach the acceleration of an NA 6, if you drive a certain way (eg. murdering the clutch during launches, and always staying in boost).
The turbo 4 will never be as efficient as the 4, but it always will have more go than it, similarly it will never perform the same as the NA6, but it will be more efficient; and I'm back to talking about compromises; mother of God life is just an endless string of compromises.

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Did you try going WOT once it had warmed up? You can feel the ECU aggressively pulling timing.

My opinion:
Throttle is mapped too aggressively - makes it "feels quick" to normal people
stock tune is still garbage (I won't tune until warranty is up on vehicles) - come on Subaru, it's been 6 years, figure it out

Modern turbo cars continue to illustrated that the adage of "there is no replacement for displacement" is true; it can be simulated in a controlled environment (mag test where clutches are murdered).

In real world driving, it's a mixed bag at best, and typically NA stuff with more displacement/cylinders and similar peak output is better.
Similarly on the track, NA stuff tends to do better than turbo-4 stuff (unmodified that is).

The only advantage I've seen to turbo 4 vs. an NA application of similar power output is fuel economy during daily driving (not true of the EJ though, that thing is a thirsty one, almost as bad as a Wankel).
Example: NA 4, Turbo 4, NA 6.
In the turbo 4 from a given manufacturer, if you drive a certain way, you can approach the fuel economy of the NA 4, like on the highway with CC on at a reasonable speed where you are far away from waking the turbo up.
Similarly, with the Turbo 4 you can approach the acceleration of an NA 6, if you drive a certain way (eg. murdering the clutch during launches, and always staying in boost).
The turbo 4 will never be as efficient as the 4, but it always will have more go than it, similarly it will never perform the same as the NA6, but it will be more efficient; and I'm back to talking about compromises; mother of God life is just an endless string of compromises.

that's just not true in all cases. i borrowed my buddies C6 Z06 (7.0L V8) and my car makes more torque at low rpm and its very noticable. i'm talking first gear off idle power where there isn't even a lot of load to build boost. subaru's engines are over a decade behind with their powerbands.

[bicycle_wreck]

Not to mention, there aren't many NA 4 pots in this segment anymore. Even the base Civics have turbo 4 bangers. Toyota and Subaru seem to be the exceptions.

Moving to the domestic side, Ford doesn't make cars anymore, and Chevy whacks a 1.4 turbo into their cars. Dodge/Chrysler don't even make a compact car anymore. NA 4 bangers are going the way of the buffalo.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Did you try going WOT once it had warmed up? You can feel the ECU aggressively pulling timing.

Maybe? It wasn't a long test drive and it was a cool'ish fall day. It seemed warmed up, but far from heat soaked. The engine seemed pretty torquey when the turbo spooled up around 3K, but the power died off so fast it managed to still feel like a narrow power band.

I just couldn't believe the feeling of the clutch and gear lever. I've driven lots of manuals, both transverse cable actuated and longitudinal right into the transmission and I think this was the worst I've ever experienced. My Eclipse GSX transmission felt better when one of the mounting points came loose and let the cable mount flop around.

I've heard the WRX transmission described as pushing a stick through a box of rocks and that's not far from the truth. I've never heard anyone describe the clutch as feeling like you're stomping on an old cardboard box but that's what it felt like to me.

Otherwise, it was a pretty pleasant, if cheap feeling, daily commuter with some sport pretenses. It's the sort of car my 65 year old mom would drive. People here knock the CVT but given the terrible manual and the lack of actual performance, that transmission makes a lot of sense. Also, the interior looked and felt like a $30,000 car from 2010.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

subaru's engines are over a decade behind with their powerbands.

Subaru's EVERYTHING is practically a decade behind. Their cars feel a generation behind at release.

[n2oiroc]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Subaru's EVERYTHING is practically a decade behind. Their cars feel a generation behind at release.

no argument here. i know most subaru guys are dead set on the boxer engines, but subaru really needs to just buy engines from someone else. modern turbo inline 4's just make so much more power everywhere and are cleaner and more efficient. subaru is fully capable of building a good chassis and interior if they want to, but they cannot compete when it comes to engines.

[dwf137]

The Golf R's engine was lightyears ahead of the old EJ from my 2009 wrx. So smooth, power down low. And I cold return (and repeat) 35 mpg during certain low-load driving situations. I struggle to see a situation where I find myself back in a car with a boxer, unless it's a porsche. I'd be interested to give the new sti engine a shot, but not if it's only in sedan form...

[Straight6]

EJ is a dinosaur but the FA20DIT is a fantastic engine. The problem is that the tuning from the factory sucks.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

that's just not true in all cases. i borrowed my buddies C6 Z06 (7.0L V8) and my car makes more torque at low rpm and its very noticable. i'm talking first gear off idle power where there isn't even a lot of load to build boost. subaru's engines are over a decade behind with their powerbands.

One of the reasons why I said by manufacturer; although the DOHC Turbo 6 in your 2020 Audi is just a bit more advanced than the pushrod V8 in the C6 Z06; even comparing the 2020 Vette to it, I'd imagine it would feel similarly, although better than the C6 does - mainly that the low end torque isn't as noticeable, but the main reason for that is not lack of torque, as the C6 Z06 is making north of 300ft-lbs at ~1,000RPM, it's the gearing & drivetrain - let me know when you crest 60mph in first gear in the Audi.

Basically a very apples to oranges comparison. I don't think there is a current NA V8 AWD on the market with similar power to compare it to, Merc went turbo V8 right? and BMW dropped the NA V8 from the M3.

Porsche turbo-4 vs NA V6 would be a good comparison, I don't have enough friends with deep pockets anymore.

It is difficult to find a platform out there that caters to many variations anymore; back in the day it was turbo4 VW vs VR6 VW.

(stock)Ecoboost V6 vs. 5.0 mustang would be a reasonable comparison.

2.0T Accord vs. V6 Camry, different manufacturers, but they occupy the same use category & target audience; similarly the civic (1.5turbo4) vs. NA 2.0l Corolla.

V6 Camaro and turbo-4 mustang - cross manufacturer but they occupy the same use category & target audience and similarly modern engines.

I agree Subaru's stuff is long in the tooth; the FA is saddled with a garbage tune out of the box. I agree it's not always true, the more money you throw at something, generally the better it can be; maybe an ATS-V would change my mind when compared to a Camaro SSalphabetsouppackage; similar gearing and output, as well as curb weight; just Turbo6 vs NA V8.