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Old 01-20-2022, 06:22 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Stellantis CEO Warns About Europe's Move To Ban ICE-Powered Cars




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Stellantis CEO Warns About Europe's Move To Ban ICE-Powered Cars | Carscoops
Stellantis chief executive Carlos Tavares says moves to ban internal combustion engines across Europe brings with it a host of social and environmental impacts.

The European Union is moving to ban the sale of new internal combustion engined cars by 2035 but Tavares says that doing this and forcing automakers to switch to all-electric vehicles isn’t the most effective way to combat climate change.

“What is clear is that electrification is a technology chosen by politicians, not by industry,” Tavares told a handful of European newspapers in a joint interview. “Given the current European energy mix, an electric car needs to drive 70,000 kilometres to compensate for the carbon footprint of manufacturing the battery and to start catching up with a light hybrid vehicle, which costs half as much as an EV (electric vehicle).”

Read More: Stellantis’ New Product Plans Show Alfa Romeo Going Full Electric By 2027, No New Chrysler Before 2023



Nevertheless, knowing that the internal combustion engine won’t be around forever, Stellantis is embarking on an electrification of its line-up. In a plan announced last year, the company said it would reveal 21 new plug-in hybrid and battery-electric models over the following two years. It has also been confirmed that Alfa Romeo will be 100 per cent electric by 2027 and Opel/Vauxhall will be all-electric by 2028.

During the interview, Tavares added that forcing automakers to transform their plans and supply chains to suit EVs “creates social risk” and said that he will try to avoid closing down any plants in Europe, Auto News reports.

“I generally hold on to the promises I make, but we also need to remain competitive,” he said while noting that production costs in Italy are “significantly higher, sometimes double of those at plants in other European countries” due to high local energy costs.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/01/st...-powered-cars/
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Old 01-20-2022, 06:26 AM   #2
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Default Electric Vehicles Remain Unappealing To Americans, According To Recent Survey

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Survey Indicates That US Buyers Are Still Not Too Interested In Electric Vehicles
RJ Pierce

Electric vehicles seem to be all the rage these days, with EV makers like Tesla considered to be among the world's most valuable tech companies. However, they still haven't captured the hearts of the American market for some reason.

ScreenRant reports that EVs remain relatively unappealing to Americans, with only a tiny 5% of them expressing any kind of interest. The figure came from a survey conducted by the auditing firm Deloitte.

The Deloitte survey asked 26,000 people in a total of 25 countries around the world. They asked these people what kind of car they'd like to buy next, irrespective of whether they already own one.

EVs are at last place for obvious reasons when buyers from the US were questioned. Hybrid cars ranked a bit higher at 17%, with gas/diesel vehicles still lording it over at 69%--or roughly two-thirds of all Americans questioned.

Furthermore, the survey also revealed that people aren't interested in paying for modern car technologies, such as autonomy, connectivity, and even safety features that a lot of newer EVs often come with.

Despite this, however, hybrids remain quite popular in the US.

EV Vs. Hydrogen Cell Vehicles: Which One is the Best for You? Advantages, Differences, and More

(Photo : Photo by Bryan Mitchell/Getty Images)
The Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid is displayed during the press preview for the world automotive media North American International Auto Show at the Cobo Center January 12, 2010 in Detroit, Michigan. The 2010 North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) opens to the public January 16th.

A Reuters report recently revealed that hybrid car sales in the country just hit record-highs. Last year, hybrid vehicle sales increased by a massive 76% (a total of 801,550 units sold). This accounted for 5% of light vehicle sales in the United States alone.

While EV sales did increase by a larger margin at 83% (434,879 units), it still represented a tiny 3% of the entire market. Toyota led all companies in terms of hybrid vehicle sales, with General Motors coming in second place.

This comes after the Biden administration has expressed a desire to have half of all US car sales be electric by 2030. However, it seems like all-electric cars still have a big mountain to climb before that vision is realized.

It's All About The American Car Culture

There could be one reason why the US market remains a tough sell for EV manufacturers: the local car culture is still in-love with their gas-guzzlers.

EVs are a relative newcomer into the automobile world. It stands to reason that many people would want to stick to what they're comfortable with, especially in the face of something unfamiliar. Furthermore, electric cars are also not exactly sold the same way these folks want.

In the United States, it is normal for folks to pay for their cars up front, in cash, then drive the same car they bought off the lot the same day. But EV manufacturers, specifically Tesla, don't do this. Ordering an all-electric car is almost exclusively done online, with the vehicle arriving weeks or even months later after the initial order.

Electric Vehicles Still Aren't Slowing Down

Elsewhere in the world, though, EVs are making headway into international markets. According to a report by UtilityDive, global EV sales increased by 80% last year, as part of modern car makers' commitments to zero emissions.

It might take electric cars years-or even decades-to fully replace gas guzzlers. But there is plenty of indication that this is where the world will eventually go in the near future.
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/2...c-vehicles.htm
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Old 01-20-2022, 07:19 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Ooooor maybe the primary reason that EV sales make up such a small portion of US vehicle sales is because ~75% of US vehicle sales are light trucks, and there are exactly zero EV light trucks available on the market currently.

Worth noting that 3% of the all vehicle sales equates to 12% of the market they actually have vehicles in.

A secondary factor (arguably the most important factor to the consumer though) would be cost when compared to comparable ICE vehicles.

A Chevy Bolt starts at 33k, it's a FWD subcompact - a Toyota Yaris starts at 18k.

Model 3 starts at 45k, a compact sedan, (and no it's not a luxury car, call it a sport compact at best) a corolla starts at 20k.

The Nissan Leaf is a more accurate comparison to the Corolla/other compacts though, starting at just over 27k, but that's the ~149 miles of range model, the ~226mi range model starts at just over 32k, and those ranges are from full charge to flat in optimal conditions, and nobody is doing that. I'm not saying a Leaf won't work for the majority of peoples day to day business, I'm saying they don't want to pay more for the handicap.

EV's won't have a large market share until they make vehicles that are comparable in capabilities & price to ICE vehicles. The Ford Lightning is coming, that could make a splash in the light truck market, the Rivian & Cybertruck won't however; Rivian is going to be too expensive, and the Cybertruck utilizes a design language that only devout followers appreciate. I haven't heard much about Chevys EV pickup offering, but it looks to be unibody, so I'm looking forward to it at least.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Ooooor maybe the primary reason that EV sales make up such a small portion of US vehicle sales is because ~75% of US vehicle sales are light trucks, and there are exactly zero EV light trucks available on the market currently.

Worth noting that 3% of the all vehicle sales equates to 12% of the market they actually have vehicles in.

A secondary factor (arguably the most important factor to the consumer though) would be cost when compared to comparable ICE vehicles.

A Chevy Bolt starts at 33k, it's a FWD subcompact - a Toyota Yaris starts at 18k.

Model 3 starts at 45k, a compact sedan, (and no it's not a luxury car, call it a sport compact at best) a corolla starts at 20k.

The Nissan Leaf is a more accurate comparison to the Corolla/other compacts though, starting at just over 27k, but that's the ~149 miles of range model, the ~226mi range model starts at just over 32k, and those ranges are from full charge to flat in optimal conditions, and nobody is doing that. I'm not saying a Leaf won't work for the majority of peoples day to day business, I'm saying they don't want to pay more for the handicap.

EV's won't have a large market share until they make vehicles that are comparable in capabilities & price to ICE vehicles. The Ford Lightning is coming, that could make a splash in the light truck market, the Rivian & Cybertruck won't however; Rivian is going to be too expensive, and the Cybertruck utilizes a design language that only devout followers appreciate. I haven't heard much about Chevys EV pickup offering, but it looks to be unibody, so I'm looking forward to it at least.
Agree with every word you wrote.
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Old 01-20-2022, 11:02 AM   #5
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Mean while in Europe :

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Electric cars outsell diesels for first time in Europe, dethroning decades-long standard
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...D-96CF39982C1E

no wonder we are falling behind China
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Old 01-20-2022, 11:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
The Nissan Leaf is a more accurate comparison to the Corolla/other compacts though, starting at just over 27k, but that's the ~149 miles of range model, the ~226mi range model starts at just over 32k, and those ranges are from full charge to flat in optimal conditions, and nobody is doing that.

This is pretty accurate. Next month I hit year 8 in my Leaf. Winter time, range decreases. During our 100 degree high humidity summers, blasting the AC on full, not as much decrease but still. Drive it like I do, accelerating hard, decreases range. The EV mfr's publish these ranges but consider it like ICE ratings for MPG. Driving it like a grandma, accelerating slow, using regen to slow it down, hypermiling type ****.



None of which bothers me because I make my own power at home. For others, it can be a nuisance. EV's remain, to me, local transport for your local foot print. DD, kid hauler, grocery getting, all solid. Even given these facts, while the Leaf is not my favorite car I have ever owned by any means, it's the best car I have ever owned. Maintenance has been nil, it's been reliable, with the only issue being the 12v battery, the same as in ICE cars, lasts about 3 years instead of 5. Other than that, no break downs, no issues, and outstanding sled for DD and I will replace it in 5 or so years with another one, hopefully an AWD version. Mid 30k range it remains at the top of the list for me for my DD. I have no interest in Teslas or "luxury" EV's. Just give me a solid EV hatchback, with decent handling. The Leaf is not as heavy as other EV's. 3500-3900 lbs. Mine is 3300 pounds and handles excellently. And I have driven the new or latest one, and it's a step up from mine, especially acceleration. Nissan will be getting my money again at some point in the future. Last ICE 6MT performance/sports car is up next.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:08 PM   #7
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Model 3 starts at 45k, a compact sedan, (and no it's not a luxury car, call it a sport compact at best) a corolla starts at 20k.
Model 3 is a mid-sized executive sedan (D-Segment), luxury car, and it's competitors are the 3-Series, C-Class, A4, Giulia, etc. They are all priced about the same.

Toyota Corolla is a compact (C-Segment).
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:32 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Model 3 is a mid-sized executive sedan (D-Segment), luxury car, and it's competitors are the 3-Series, C-Class, A4, Giulia, etc. They are all priced about the same.

Toyota Corolla is a compact (C-Segment).
The model 3 is not a luxury car. It's less luxurious than a loaded Accord or Camry. It's never been officially branded as one and always Tesla's entry level EV. The only reason it's compared to those cars is because it's at a similar size and price point.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:43 PM   #9
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The model 3 is not a luxury car. It's less luxurious than a loaded Accord or Camry. It's never been officially branded as one and always Tesla's entry level EV. The only reason it's compared to those cars is because it's at a similar size and price point.
It is contented and priced for that segment, because it is.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Model 3 is a mid-sized executive sedan (D-Segment), luxury car, and it's competitors are the 3-Series, C-Class, A4, Giulia, etc. They are all priced about the same.

Toyota Corolla is a compact (C-Segment).
Model 3 is not a mid-size, it's a compact; so are the 3-series, C-class, A4, Giulia, etc.

Sit in a Model 3, then sit in any luxury brand; I know they are priced similarly, but even Infiniti has significantly better interior materials & design, and is put together significantly better than a Model 3.

Worth noting, the Corolla has significantly better interior materials & design, and is put together significantly better than a Model 3 as well, but the Model 3 sets a really low bar, and Toyota has manufacturing & design standards. I've never been in a modern Fiat; are the interior & build quality of a Fiat worse than a Model 3? Is Fiat still in the US?
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:48 PM   #11
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Model 3 is not a mid-size, it's a compact; so are the 3-series, C-class, A4, Giulia, etc.

Sit in a Model 3, then sit in any luxury brand; I know they are priced similarly, but even Infiniti has significantly better interior materials & design, and is put together significantly better than a Model 3.

Worth noting, the Corolla has significantly better interior materials & design, and is put together significantly better than a Model 3 as well, but the Model 3 sets a really low bar. I've never been in a modern Fiat; are the interior & build quality of a Fiat worse than a Model 3? Is Fiat still in the US?
Model 3 is D-Segment, which is mid-sized executive sedan, just like a 3-series, C-Class, etc.

Model 3 = 185"
Giulia = 183"
3 Ser. = 186"

I've owned a Model 3. It is just as comfortable, premium and technologically appointed as it's competitors (3 series, A4, Giulia, etc etc).

Your opinion on quality is subjective. The Model 3's class, and which cars it competes against, is clearly D-Segment Premium/Luxury cars. I didn't say it was a Bentley.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post

Model 3 starts at 45k, a compact sedan, (and no it's not a luxury car, call it a sport compact at best) a corolla starts at 20k.
.

A prius prime splits the difference price wise, no range anxiety, no second road trip car, still very low c02 when out of angry electrons.


Its almost like toyota has had the ideal solution for a decade, but somehow 1100 hp EVs and near monster truck 100k EVs will be our savior.

Kudos for ford on hybrid maverick 40mpg, I suspect no good dead will go unpunished though
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Old 01-20-2022, 02:22 PM   #13
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It is contented and priced for that segment, because it is.
No it's not.
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Old 01-20-2022, 02:54 PM   #14
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No it's not.
Guess what...the Model Y is in the same segment as your X3.
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Old 01-20-2022, 03:17 PM   #15
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oh good, an electric car thread that doesn't end up with everyone talking about Tesla.
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Old 01-20-2022, 03:52 PM   #16
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oh good, an electric car thread that doesn't end up with everyone talking about Tesla.
It is annoying but it was brought up by the Tesla haters.

The Model 3 is not on the same segment as the BMW 3-series or A4 , are they delusional? The Model 3 Performance was benchmarked against the BMW M3 and was said to be quicker than the M3 before it was on sale. Have they ever seen Tesla financial reports were they name the 3-series and A4 as direct competitors? Or have they seen the thousands of videos comparing both cars?

Is it because in their subjective world the Model 3 is not luxurious enough to be competitors? They are on the same segment period and people cross shop both cars.

Remind me if this:


https://fortune.com/2022/01/12/tesla...ch-ev-volumes/

Quote:
.An analysis of the full-year global sales figures for Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volkswagen, and Audi published this week reveals the underlying problem: Fast growth doesn't help when you are starting from a small base.

The quartet of German car brands are at the highest risk of seeing customers trade in their Bimmer or Benz for a Tesla. Until Elon Musk came around, they set the benchmark in automotive innovation for the well-heeled car buyer. Now all they can do is play catch-up.
This is funny. This is how this website that tracks car sales ranks the Model 3:




https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/

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Old 01-20-2022, 04:50 PM   #17
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They don't hate Tesla. They hate people who own the Teslas. It's...different.
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Old 01-20-2022, 04:54 PM   #18
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They don't hate Tesla. They hate people who own the Teslas. It's...different.
why would they hate my 69 year old mother
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Old 01-20-2022, 04:59 PM   #19
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Because they hate you.

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Old 01-20-2022, 08:26 PM   #20
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I honestly feel people are sick tired of environmentalist shouting from the hilltop that the sky is falling and that EVs will be our saving grace. There is only so much nagging those individuals can take.

Me I like what I drive and when the time comes, and a viable conversion kit is brought to market. I will make the change. Otherwise, I'm happy paying 1.67 a gallon with my truck that is paid for.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:30 PM   #21
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Otherwise, I'm happy paying 1.67 a gallon with my truck that is paid for.
Do you have to know Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes to get that discount?

Geez, hook a brother up with dem prices. Feel free to PM me
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Old 01-21-2022, 01:59 AM   #22
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I paid $3.759/gal for 87 at Costco yesterday.
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Old 01-21-2022, 06:47 AM   #23
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We finally have a modern Sheetz (Wyoming County Pa tippy top]. They have Flex fuel. It's one dollar less a gallon. That's a lot..Haven't used it
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Old 01-21-2022, 03:55 PM   #24
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I get Stel...whatever's point that the market did not generate this but you can't always rely on "free" market to generate competition to drive innovation.

Having said that I don't think a BEV is in my near future. Any autonomous electric pod when I'm 75 sure.

My short travel/errand runner is probably going to be this when I can find one in stock nearby (100+ MPG easy):

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Old 01-21-2022, 04:32 PM   #25
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I'm trying so hard right now to buy into this lifestyle...motors gone hate.

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