Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday June 12, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2006, 09:12 PM   #1
93L-RS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 105753
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default True or False: Early EJ18's had JDM STI cranks and rods

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 1993 Ej18's (1.8L) came from the factory with STI cranks and con rods. Is there any merit to this? If so, did it continue past '93? IIRC, it was either Subachad, Matt Monson or Storm that said this.
If i have a '93 crank and a '95 crank sitting side by side, how do I tell if one is forged (STI)?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
93L-RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-12-2006, 09:22 PM   #2
amorton
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 72798
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS Sedan
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

I have never heard of this, but it would be cool if it were true, I have a 93 1.8 sitting in my garage.
amorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2006, 11:00 PM   #3
subachad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8488
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Sin City
Vehicle:
1993 Impreza GCStyle
Teal

Default

I heard the same thing. I think this actually comes from Mike Shields SPD site.

P.S. www.uniquemotorsports.com is coming back online, I'm uploading the site now.
subachad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 03:52 AM   #4
93L-RS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 105753
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default

I'd like to find out the true story to this. Anyone have any ideas where to find out?
93L-RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 10:25 AM   #5
Scoobie Steve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2289
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Bangor, PA
Vehicle:
1998 [email protected]
Subaru L Ver 6 STi Type R

Default

Yes its true. ALL early blocks had the same internals. JDM and USDM EJ18, early EJ20, EJ22 na and EJ22t all the same goodies. All cranks are forged.
Scoobie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 10:48 AM   #6
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve
Yes its true. ALL early blocks had the same internals. JDM and USDM EJ18, early EJ20, EJ22 na and EJ22t all the same goodies. All cranks are forged.
What Steve wrote above is true, but calling them the same as STi cranks is untrue. The first 4-5 years that STI was around, it was different than it is today. Stock vehicles and engines were taken off the production line and sent over to STI for hand blueprinting. There was no difference to the cranks when compared to a WRX or an Ej18, for that matter. But the STi cranks were knife edged, dynamically balanced with rods and flywheel, and then the engine was assembled, with forged pistons and the hand ported numbered heads. The cranks were also signed. I think I have pictures of my signed crank somewhere in my directory. I will see if I can find them.
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 11:02 AM   #7
MY99 2.5GT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5030
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Martinsburg, WV, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy 2.5GT
19 Audi RS3, 13 Armada

Default

Mike is good for old school random facts like that.
MY99 2.5GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 12:34 PM   #8
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

from what I've been told and seen pics of the old EJ18's 93-94 had STi cranks and rods as well as upper ("dogbone") engine mount...
I know mine had the dogbone and guess I need to crack open the old block and find out what's really inside...
what Matt said I know to be true with the old STi RA internals...
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 01:59 PM   #9
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

Well,
wouldn't it still be more correct to say that STi's used a standard production crank than to say that Ej18's got STi cranks? I know it's just a question of terminology, but if we want to be correct about it that's what happened...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 02:00 PM   #10
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Well,
wouldn't it still be more correct to say that STi's used a standard production crank than to say that Ej18's got STi cranks? I know it's just a question of terminology, but if we want to be correct about it that's what happened...
yeah, that would make more sense...but who know's for sure that the STi's didn't get a little bit of massaging...?...
anyone have an old school STi (not RA) crank that they can take pics of to compare?...weight would be a good factor too...
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 02:15 PM   #11
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

I do have an STI crank at home. It's from an RS-RA Legacy, but it's still an STi crank. This crank has been massaged for sure, and like I said, it's signed in Japanese. I compared it to my standard Ej20G crank and there were differences. I'll see what I can do for pictures...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 03:06 PM   #12
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

RS-RA...was that not the RA of the legacy's when they were used for rally...?...
that would make it massaged like any other sti RA...we know those were balanced by hand...

was your EJ20G from a baseline turbo or sti ?
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 03:18 PM   #13
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

I guess we need to do some more digging. I was always under the impression that both STi and STi-RA engines were massaged, and only the standard WRX and WRX-RA's were not. My Ej20G was a standard auto engine from a '93 Legacy GT. The RS-RA was the only STi variant back in '90-93 before the WRX's came out.

I have also been trying to figure out when they stopped numbering the heads. The catch is that the numbers are behind the exhaust cam gears, and unless someone pops their engine, they don't ever go into the engine that deep. Even for a timing belt change, they aren't going to take off that gear where they could see the numbers...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 04:46 PM   #14
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93L-RS
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 1993 Ej18's (1.8L) came from the factory with STI cranks and con rods. Is there any merit to this? If so, did it continue past '93? IIRC, it was either Subachad, Matt Monson or Storm that said this.
If i have a '93 crank and a '95 crank sitting side by side, how do I tell if one is forged (STI)?
Well, I might be able to help out.

Take a look at the EJ18 rods and crank:

Crank



Rods



There are a couple of things you can tell from these sheets:

As far as the crank goes, the AA031 was superceded by the AA080, then the AA081. Given the break out, it looks like AA081 is a very new update, as up to the 97MY came with the 080. Also notice that for the very first set of production for MY93 (June 92-Jan 93), the AA080 is the final superceding part number. Usually if there is a new crank , it would be usable in all of the previous configs. It is possible this is a data error, as I have seen this mistake before (meaning you could only order the AA081 now).

I will look in the JDM catalog and see what the STI crank number is.

It is also interesting to note that the crank is the same one used in the 94,95 and 96 EJ22.

As for the rods, the AA041 is superceded by the AA042 and AA051. However in mid MY 97, the rods went to a new part, the AA140. Given that this is not listed as a supercede, I suspect there was a change in the piston as well.

Again, I will check the Japanese catalog and see what the 93 STI had.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 05:01 PM   #15
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

funny the aa031 isn't showing superceded by the aa081 now...still shows aa080...
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 05:34 PM   #16
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

sponaugle to the rescue...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 05:40 PM   #17
93L-RS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 105753
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default

so, will those numbers be on the crank?
The dilemna I'm having is this: I have my old '93 EJ18. I also have two "newer" '95 EJ18's.
I'm building a 1.8 for boost. Is it advantageous to take the '93 crank and rods and dump them into the '95? Either way, the motor is getting a full rebuild (bearings, seals, valves, etc. etc.)
The '93 is not in the best condition. I had a hard time getting the motor and tranny apart when i did the 2.5 swap. I wasn't at all gentle with the B.F.H., and the block is pretty much toast (on the outside, anyway)
The '95 is in decent shape on the outside, so I wanted to use the '95 block, '93 internals, if that gives me any added durability.
93L-RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 05:58 PM   #18
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
funny the aa031 isn't showing superceded by the aa081 now...still shows aa080...
I confirmed that on the JDM Impreza 2.0Ls, the AA080/AA081 was used.
It was used on the Version 4 and 5 EJ20K, the Version 3-Version 6 STI and STI RA, as well as the S201 and 22B.

It is possible however that an early 93 1.8 would have the older AA031, not the newer AA080/81.

As for the rods:

The 41/42/51 rod was used in the version 2 STI, but was superceded by the AA150 very quickly. All of the Version 3 and Version 4 has the AA150. Version 5,6, and 7 had 210/240, which is the current 'JDM STI' rod as well as the same rod used in the USDM STI.

So, it looks like the rods you have from the 93 or 95 are not the same as the JDM STI ones.

Jeff
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 06:06 PM   #19
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

So this begs the question, how could they use that crank on the v5-v6 engines if they were phase II with an end thrust bearing?
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 06:23 PM   #20
93L-RS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 105753
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle
I confirmed that on the JDM Impreza 2.0Ls, the AA080/AA081 was used.
It was used on the Version 4 and 5 EJ20K, the Version 3-Version 6 STI and STI RA, as well as the S201 and 22B.

It is possible however that an early 93 1.8 would have the older AA031, not the newer AA080/81.

Jeff
By this, it would appear that rods don't really matter which year they come from, and I would be better off using the AA080 crank?
93L-RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 07:25 PM   #21
rau
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 57784
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Mateo, CA
Vehicle:
1994 Impreza L Sedan
Aspen White

Default

so my MY94 1.8 shows AA080...

does that mean its thesame as the forged JDM?
rau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 08:11 PM   #22
Scoobie Steve
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2289
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Bangor, PA
Vehicle:
1998 [email protected]
Subaru L Ver 6 STi Type R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
So this begs the question, how could they use that crank on the v5-v6 engines if they were phase II with an end thrust bearing?
You took the words out of my mouth, Also I question the ver5-7 rods all being the same. It would be great if they are but I have a feeling Ver 7 got the bolt style instead of the older Ver 5/6 stud rods.
Scoobie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 08:48 PM   #23
93L-RS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 105753
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default

pulled some numbers off of the '93 crank and rods. Don't know if they mean anything....
Crank: CBBCC IIII
below that, it reads: 822552 L

Rods: one reads: AGD GD44
another reads: AGI GI44
mean anything?
Tomorrow I'll have the '95 block pulled apart, and I'll see what that has to say......
93L-RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 12:42 PM   #24
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

I hope to be able to pull apart my my94 (will check production date) EJ18 and see what she says...
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 02:12 PM   #25
jamesfacts
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51282
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Pasadena, CA
Vehicle:
98 RS
black & blue from parking

Default

Very interesting thread...
jamesfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spec C 2.0 build. Stroked with STI crank and rods. Pictures reddevil Built Motor Discussion 61 08-17-2010 05:07 PM
2007 sti crank and rods PIECEOFTHEPIE Engine/Power/Exhaust 11 02-15-2009 10:18 AM
F.S. 04 STI Crank And Rods efrain_n7 Engine/Power/Exhaust 11 06-12-2008 08:24 PM
FS Houston: STI Crank and Rods Rancid TXIC Private Classifieds 2 08-15-2007 12:17 PM
STi Crank and rods in wrx SQB SNX Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 2 11-14-2005 04:53 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.