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Old 07-12-2006, 12:28 PM   #1
AZScoobie
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Default GT40R flow maps

Starting a new post. People asked me about this and wanted the info on the new .85 housing for the 4088RL. Its now on the garrett site.

This was in response to a tune I did when I worked with Kingpin in the past on a stock STI 2.5 motor and a GT40R turbo. The Fab work was done at PHX turbo. At the time the only two housings that where available where the .95 and the 1.19. Both to large for the 2.5 motor. The car made power at 565whp but I had to stop as the valves started to float at 32 psi or so. Sadly that car was not ever finished and its been well over a year since those pulls.

At the time I found that I could get the T4 housing that was not devided in .7 and that it could be fitted to the 4088RL turbocharger. I still think this is the best option. But in the year we have all been waiting for that car to get done Garrett has come out with a .85 housing which is closer to what we need on the 2.5

I dont think anyone would want to run 35R's anymore once I test the 40R with the T4/.7 AR housing. OR even the new .85. The turbine flow really unleashes alot of power.

CLark




The entire 4088R page is here

Turbobygarrett


Clark
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Last edited by AZScoobie; 07-12-2006 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 07-12-2006, 12:56 PM   #2
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Very cool... I'll definitely be awaiting your tests... I still think that personally the 35r is the biggest I'd want to go lagwise but maybe with my balanced bottom and jdm heads w/cams I could go bigger.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:20 PM   #3
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In clarks last post on the gt40r they got the .95ar GT40R to spool up by 5000+rpm on a stock motor. I bet on a built motor, built heads, twin scroll headers, hydra(take control of avcs) and jet hot coating to header, turbo and downpipe/up-pipe with either a .7 or .85 ar the gt40r could spool in the late 4k. Have the motor be able to spin to either 8 or 8.5k and you have one sick powerband.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:23 PM   #4
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I also bet if you used a 3.5in turboback it would help some what with spool time.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:35 PM   #5
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Where did you find an undivided 0.7 A/R T4 turbine housing? Was it a 0.69 A/R divided that was milled out?
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:39 PM   #6
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Did the valves float because you were using stock springs?
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:40 PM   #7
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^yea the entire longblock was stock, the heads,valves and springs couldnt take all the airflow the gt40r was flowing.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:47 PM   #8
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Just because you have not see that housing Bboy does not mean it does not exist.. Lol

Yes. The valves floated. Its common on STI's. At least for me. Its common for me to run a stock STI engine to 30 psi. I have seen this over and over now. This car at 565whp floated the valves.. If you listen in the Dyno videos you can hear it happen. Upgraded springs and retainers will fix this problem. Right around 31-33 psi it happens.

Clark
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:51 PM   #9
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Clark when do you expect to test the .7ar and will you test the .85ar as well.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:54 PM   #10
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Can anyone explain how to read the turbine flow map? I understand the compressor graph, just not the turbine.

thanks
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:07 PM   #11
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I'll grant you that. I've wondered about something between the 0.63 and 0.82, but never have seen one. So it's good to know. Now I'll have to look into the diff between T4 and T3 housings.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:12 PM   #12
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Just to add my 2 pence....

I run a GT40R on a 2.35L engine. I have the 0.95A/R housing, and on the road get 1 bar of boost at 3400RPM in 4th gear if starting at about 2800rpm. In 5th gear I get 1 bar at about 3200rpm.

I have run 3 bar (43.5psi) on this setup by accident, for 1/4 mile runs, compressor surge or stall was not a problem on my platform.

I am considering the 1.05 housing and a larger compressor wheel for drag racing, the current turbo is ideal for circuit work, for which the car is largely developed.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:15 PM   #13
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Can I get this in stock location mount?
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:17 PM   #14
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Mine is mounted in the stock location, of the radiator...
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:08 PM   #15
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Yep, I posted the flow charts up in another thread about the GT40R.
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ
Can I get this in stock location mount?
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Old 07-13-2006, 02:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ
Can I get this in stock location mount?
Smart arse
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRice
Can anyone explain how to read the turbine flow map? I understand the compressor graph, just not the turbine.

thanks
basically where those plotted lines go horizontal you are at the max flow of the turbine. no matter how much more pressure you put across the hot side (ie, how much further right you go on the x axis) you just don't net additional mass flow. the PR across the hotside is X axis, mass flow rate on the Y, and the lines represent the flow rates for the various AR housings.

the engine can only inhale as much air as it exhales. when the hot side chokes off flow you get more backpressure, and that results in two things: 1) more leftover spent charge in the chamber after exhaust stroke/less space for fresh charge/lower VE, and 2) more pumping losses. either way you're not going to make more power.
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:45 AM   #19
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^^Thanks for trying to explain it. Unfortunately, i'm still confused.

I guess my question is is there any way to determine spool up from the turbine map? Or better question....what can you determine from the turbine graph. I know from a compressor graph, you can determine approximate bhp at a certain boost level and whether you are in the efficiency of the compressor, but the turbine graph...
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:25 AM   #20
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo
Just to add my 2 pence....

I run a GT40R on a 2.35L engine. I have the 0.95A/R housing, and on the road get 1 bar of boost at 3400RPM in 4th gear if starting at about 2800rpm. In 5th gear I get 1 bar at about 3200rpm.

I have run 3 bar (43.5psi) on this setup by accident, for 1/4 mile runs, compressor surge or stall was not a problem on my platform.

I am considering the 1.05 housing and a larger compressor wheel for drag racing, the current turbo is ideal for circuit work, for which the car is largely developed.

This is hard to swallow for me. WHat car and engine is this on? Surely not an EJ motor.

Clark
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:10 PM   #22
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well he said its mounted infront of the car where the radiator is, aka evo/honda style. Im sure thats helping a lot with spool and power.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
This is hard to swallow for me. WHat car and engine is this on? Surely not an EJ motor.

Clark
EJ motor with NON AVCS cams, 272deg total duration. Proper split pulse manifold with primaries around 18" in length, primaries are equal length and terminate at the flange.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
basically where those plotted lines go horizontal you are at the max flow of the turbine. no matter how much more pressure you put across the hot side (ie, how much further right you go on the x axis) you just don't net additional mass flow. the PR across the hotside is X axis, mass flow rate on the Y, and the lines represent the flow rates for the various AR housings.

the engine can only inhale as much air as it exhales. when the hot side chokes off flow you get more backpressure, and that results in two things: 1) more leftover spent charge in the chamber after exhaust stroke/less space for fresh charge/lower VE, and 2) more pumping losses. either way you're not going to make more power.
Not quite true. The flow on the graph is corrected flow, in otherwords the equivalent mass flow at standard temperature and pressure. The upshot of this is that higher pressure will result in higher mass flow, but higher termperature will result in lower mass flow.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo
EJ motor with NON AVCS cams, 272deg total duration. Proper split pulse manifold with primaries around 18" in length, primaries are equal length and terminate at the flange.

Thats just incredible P. Is there a picture of this posted somewhere?

Clark
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