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Old 10-23-2001, 12:29 PM   #1
Scuby-on-dubs
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Default Why this car?

Most of you seem so concerned with performance why would you buy this car if you wanted performance?

They have 2.0 4-cilinders, why would you want to mod something with such low potential.

I have a 2001 black Z28 and I bought that car for performance and that is what I got. I have modded the hell out of it and it is very quick but still a streetcar.

I think these cars are cool don’t get me wrong. The AWD on dirt roads is cool but why race these cars on the street or in the ¼ when you did not buy a car that was built to do that.

This is not a flame I just want to know why.
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:35 PM   #2
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I'm glad I bought 10,000 shares of Dupont last week (they make flame-proof materials).

Ka-Ching!


Ed
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:35 PM   #3
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As a famous drag racer once said,"any idiot can go fast in a strait line!"
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:36 PM   #4
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Yeah, 2.0 liter turbo engines will never add up to a hill of beans.

Anyone catch San Remo last night on Speedvision??

Ed
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:37 PM   #5
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*sniff*
*sniff*





*sniff*
*sniff*



I smell a troll.


*sniff*


ah... maybe not...

One question... What does a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder have to do with low potential? Not all roads are straight and flat. They aren't even all paved. Gas ain't cheap either.

First ask yourself this question before posting the question you did: Why did they cancel the F-body line of vehicles and increase the production of WRX's? There must be a reason.
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:42 PM   #6
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Why is it that everyone who drives a Camaro can't understand that AWD is not just for 'dem there dirt roads? I have met 4 people that said the same exact thing, all drove Camaros. It's kind of hard to say these engines don't have potential. Personally, I'm going to swap my 2.5 for a 2.0 turbo eventually. Maybe a nice STi engine with about 300hp stock. Now that would be fun to play with. Subaru's are not drag racing wonders but can do quite well at it. Go watch some tarmac stages of a rally for "your AWD is not just for dirt" lesson #1. Anyone smell burnt troll?
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:43 PM   #7
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Here is why.
A. To be honest, anyone car go fast with a 8 cyl. Its much more pleasing to blow away a car with double the displacment of ur car. That is something that I enjoy.
B. If I get my car down into the 12s, I can still go out and drive to work in the snow. Not only can i drive in the snow, I can do it safer than most cars out there
C. Dirt! I don't think Ineed to speak more about that
D. Driving in a straight line is not a subaru's home. Driving in an auto-x , rally-x, or rally...now thats where it belongs. Our cars do pretty damn well at auto-xs.
E. If we wanted to go fast drag racing, I'd buy a $2000 old V8 modifiy that with about $4000 and be running like 10s or something. Thats not important to me, I want to have a car that all around is
A. Reliable
B. Quick
C. Handles
D. Is able to handle any weather SAFELY
E. Safe
F. Rare
G. decent price.
There isn't another car out there that fits all that stuff other than the WRX (or the RS )
Understand now?
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:52 PM   #8
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1/4 mile, Yep I whole heartedly agree... and My car will never see a drag strip. Though it is a very valid place to gauge performance gains while tuning a motor. The Impreza is a purpose built Rally car built to replace the legacy in World Rally. I don't have a problem with the Z-28 as long as the one realizes what it was made for. Same goes with the Impreza..

Both of these cars can do similar things well, and most times it takes quite a bit of work to make either cross over into the others specialty. So when we have an Impreza running 10's I'd say that is something to brag about, and when Chevy has a Camaro win a Rally Title, they will have something to brag about. Heck they probably already have one in SCCA ProRally.

They are different cars that do different things..

Like it or leave it. Your Choice

So if you get up and see your car and it makes you happy, good for you. When I get in and drive my car it puts a smile on my face so Hey, it was money well spent.

Later

Eric
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:54 PM   #9
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I think I can answer this. Most people do not buy a car for one reason. Unless you are rich you wouldn't buy a car for the sole purpose of beating other people in a drag race. In other words if you can only afford one car like most people you want to get the most out of it.

The people in WRXs who race you on the street didn't buy it just to race, but they are showing you that in addition to the many things the WRX does well, it can also go fast in a straight line. When they are not racing they are flying through twisty roads with a big smile on there face (rain or shine), driving in snow, taking 3 friends for a ride and making good use of four doors, ect.

I respect the Camaro Z28, but I wanted a more balanced car that does it all, not one thing extreemly well.
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:58 PM   #10
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...hey, I've been convinced. When I get the money, I'm gonna go right out and pick me up a 2003 Camaro Z28...

...what's that?...no, really?...they don't make that anymore, huh? go figure.

from Motortrend:
"an engine whose specific output is rivaled by only the vaunted 911 Turbo - the Porsche churns out 115 horsepower per liter versus the Subaru's 114"

You're right, no potential there!

...but I'm sure you've already researched this, so you know that the engine is capable of around 300hp. And you must know that the Camaro is almost 400lbs heavier.

from Consumer Reports:
"the Camaro is too bulky to be nimble"

Also remember that there are different types of performance!

Gads, I can't wait for the STi WRX to arrive so the mullet-heads will be forced to count something other than cylinders!
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Old 10-23-2001, 12:58 PM   #11
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There is a mustang in Pro Rally. Never seen a Camaro or Corvette.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:01 PM   #12
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, umm where do I begin. Well first off, saying 2.0 l 4 cylinders have no potential. Say that to some of my DSM buddies that run low 12's all day long at the track, or my friend with the S2000 that tears house at auto-x tracks. Your almighty LS1 is meant to go straight and doesn't even do a geat job doing that. That thing handles like a boat on wheels, is uncomfortable to drive, shifter is positioned horrible, visibility is a joke, and don't get me started on foul weather reliability and drivability. I used to work at a Pontiac dealership and probably drove 15 or 20 Firebirds (same exact car) alot of them with the WS6 suspension upgrade and they still didn't impress me. Funny thing is, I have raced prolly 8 or 9 LT1's and LS1's and have only lost once. Why? Because they would sit there and spin while I was pulling 1.9 60 ft times. Some were 6-speeds some were Auto's. Those cars have serious traction problems and they couldn't launch them right, but that is not my problem. Now AWD is perfect for stoplight racing, because you have the launch advantage, handling becasue you have unnormal amounts of grip, and foul weather drivability because all 4 whells driving the car. If your car is that fast, I can guarantee It ain't fully streetable because you prolly need slicks to hook up and slicks have soft sidewalls and make your car wobble down the road and have very soft compounds and can't be driven on every day. Either way, IF you are ever in the Florida or New York area, I will be happy to show you some capable 4 cylinders. Ohh by the way, I wonder why they discontinued your car, because GM felt bad selling people a $30,000 car that was losing to a 4 door sedan with bulging headlights!!! Sorry for the long post, but this is te exact attitude I encounter every day from various rednecks and their V-8's.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:02 PM   #13
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Troll

Moderators, please delete this drivel.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:04 PM   #14
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Frankly, I don't understand the desire to drag race these cars either. However, I wouldn't tell somebody that they shouldn't do something just because I wouldn't...different people get off on different things. It makes the world a more interesting place!
I bought my car because I wanted a commuter that I could drive up to the slopes a dozen or so times a year. The turbo performance was icing on the cake as far as I am concerned!
It's a very rewarding car to drive and is super functional for my needs.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:08 PM   #15
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Well, let me try to explain. First I am not going to flame you for asking this or try to tell you that Firebirds and Mustangs or pieces of *****. My brother is a big time muscle car lover. His saying is there is no replacement for displacement. But a big engine doesn't make a car fast, or necessarily give it more potential. Let me give you some examples.

V8 versus flat 4

-V8 weights a ton more than flat 4
-Flat 4 has a lower center of gravity making the car more balanced (hence one major reason porsche has used flat 6's in their 911's for years)
-Depending on the V8 (Firebird, Camaro) use push rod engines, which are outdated technology and are less efficient

Camaro Versus WRX

-You said why buy a car with a flat 4 with so low potential, then I ask you why buy a sports car that weights 500lbs more? Weight to many racers is just as important, if not more important than horsepower. Weight effects braking, cornering, acceleration, and fuel economy for a car; all extremely important aspects of road or dirt (rally) racing.
-Consumer reports rates the Corvette, Camaro, and Firebird and three of the worst cars for reliability and warranty issues. Yet Subaru is rated as one of the most reliable cars on the market. Reliability tends to be important if you want to finish the race.

I work for a automotive supplier designing seals and gaskets. We supply parts to every auto maker. The level of testing and technology that the German and Japanese makers require of us is years ahead of what the US makers require.

One of GM's big engine designers, who I work with, came out to see my car at work. He knows much more about engines and design than I do. His only comment after looking under my hood for about 15 minutes was "The engineering put into this engine shows one reason why the American car companies are losing their market share."

I love all sports cars and appreciate all of them for their own unique reasons and anyone who loves cars and likes to modify them is cool in my book. There are just many different ways of going about it.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:09 PM   #16
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HAHA you guys scared him away!
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:17 PM   #17
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I am not a redneck nor am I a troll. I just wanted someone to give me some insight not insults. I did not slam your car nor did I mean any insult to it.
 
Old 10-23-2001, 01:21 PM   #18
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Well then, you got your answer.

And just for the record, I think Drag Racing is just dumb and I don't understand why people drag Subarus or Hondas or any 4 cylinder.

If I we're only into 1/4 mile times, I'd buy an American V8.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:25 PM   #19
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I know what you mean.

This is more about your perception of this board - "Most of you seem interested in drags and 1/4 mile"...

... that's what it looks like to the outsider, there is plenty of noise about that kind of racing here, but believe me, these people are the VAST minority.

Most of us bought these cars because of all the other things you can do with them.

Dig a little deeper and you'll find most of us are a) nice ppl and b) car enthusiasts (just like you), not 16 year old children braggin about how they smoked a 'vette last night.

Dave
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:31 PM   #20
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First off i would like to say i drove a heavily moddified lt1 z28 and was running low 13's @3800 feet. And it was an automatic. The car was fast as hell in the straights, but the handeling sucked, and i had good tires on it too. Second The cost of getting a z28 to great performance is freakin expensive. It cost me 5 grand to get low 13's where it would cost less than 1500 to get low 13's out of a wrx. maybe less. Guys like you make me ashemed that i even drove a z28. The all might 5.7l engine is nice and all, but its severly outdated. And yes you did bash the wrx, you asked why we would buy such a car to go fast, well truth is it halls ass, a sti or evo7 stock for stock would whip you pretty little ls1 in every catagory. And i hope you dont live where it snows or rains alot, i got rid of my car for that reason alone. Try gettin close to 400lb feet of tq the the ground with an inch of ice on the ground, its not going to happen. And what did you expect posting crap like this in our forum? Maybe i should go to your chevy forum and asked why you bought a car that handels like a boat and is being discontinued.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scuby-on-dubs
I am not a redneck nor am I a troll. I just wanted someone to give me some insight not insults. I did not slam your car nor did I mean any insult to it.
come on guys be a little bit easier on him, he did not bash our cars, he just asked a simple question...

help him see the light...
 
Old 10-23-2001, 01:44 PM   #22
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As far as the potential factor goes you have to realize that a camaro or corvette is better. Not saying that a small four cylinder can't do great things but compared to a v8 they can look silly. Yes you can get a DSM that will run twelves all day but for the same price you could probably get a daily driven camaro to run 11's or even 10's. It's just a fact that when it comes right down to it there really is no replacement for displacement. I don't mean straight from the factory, but when you start modding them. A 4cyl comes with a four that is already turboed to help it achieve better power, now add a bigger turbo, intercooler, exhaust/intake, and electornics the car as far as power is concerned is maxed out. Now take a V8 bore and stroke it to 427 cu in. and it will probably be faster than most production cars, add exhaust/intake and your faster than almost all imports that are modded, add a super charger or twin turbos, and your in another world(Look at lingenfelter). As far as handling goes it's along the same route. Yes an impreza is worlds ahead of the camaro in terms of handling, but when you dump a ton of money into them the advantage starts to slip, because while 4WD is really good for us normal people and for rally people when it comes to road racing RWD is better, because it is lighter and it has better handling characteristics. Again this is not a flame agianst 4cyl cars. I used to own a camaro and because of it I woun't buy an american car anymore, there were too many problems, but don't underestimate the potential that those cars have.
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:45 PM   #23
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"[The Subaru] is by no means fast"?? Uhhh... 60 in less than six seconds isn't fast?

"Z28 weighs almost double"? Uhhh... Let's not make it any tougher for the Camaro than it already is. It doesn't weigh 6000lbs. That'll be next year's Chevy Avalanche Camaro Sport.

The Impreza can hang with a Camaro in a straight line and stir it with a stick in any corner in all conditions, is vastly more reliable and is cheaper. Why would I want that?

Life does not begin and end at the dragstrip.

lb
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:48 PM   #24
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Three words:

MADE IN JAPAN
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Old 10-23-2001, 01:50 PM   #25
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What prompted me to post something like this is all of the folks who show up at the street races. Also when you go on these boards where the subject of the board is 4 cl cars and all they talk about is how to make their cars go faster and talk about ¼ times you begin to wonder why they bought the car to begin with.

Let me begin with the street races for a second. Several years back when I was more into racing than I am now I frequented the races and most if not all of the folks out there were running V8 engines in either a Ford or Chevy. Then came along a few 4-bangers that would run. Now it seems that is all that shows up to these races is Japanese four cylinders. Now the street races suck and the cars have ruined what was once a place to race fast cars. I get so furious with some of those drivers. One guy in a Honda Civic approached me in my Camaro and wanted to run I blew him off and he kept pestering me and they would laugh at my car every time he and his friends passed by. My Camaro is a sleeper there is no way from looking at the outside of the car that you could tell it was modded. The only thing that would give it away was my rear tires. I finally broke down and raced him. I could not believe what I was about to do but I did it. I felt as if I had done something wrong by racing a Civic. I thought I would shut this guy up if I raced him. As you could guess I blew him away. He had the nerve to tell me he missed a gear and could have taken me. I was so mad at this guy I had to leave. They cannot even admit it when they get beat.

If you approach a 4-cl owner and ask the question as I did above you would get the responses you gave me, but his ass would be at the ¼ track that weekend messing with V8 cars. You say one thing but do another.

With respect to the board and topics all most of you talk about is how to make your car go faster in the ¼ mile. Sure there is some talk about suspension but not as much.

I like the WRX and might get one just because of the individually and the handling. I test drove one and fell in love with the ride. I just do not want to give up my V8. As far as a V8 not being able to hook up it can we just do not want it too. If I had race slicks on my car and heated them up at a good track and dumped the clutch at 5 grand I would break something if they hooked up right off. I need them to slip a bit of the line so I do not break something.

Thanks for your help and I mean no disrespect.
 
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