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View Poll Results: what to do?
try to resell the reservoir (but who will buy it?) 0 0%
contest with paypal only 2 12.50%
contest with paypal + amex 2 12.50%
suck it up and take the loss 11 68.75%
oblig. option 5 / other 1 6.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-01-2006, 04:04 PM   #1
shikataganai
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'18 Pacifica PHEV

Angry Dishonest seller - advice needed

UPDATE: the reservoir is now for sale.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=15507730



i bought a WI setup including a reservoir off a non-NWIC nasioc member about a month ago, and feel that i have been wronged, and thus come to NWIC seeking sage advice . the controversy involves the reservoir itself - the WI system was fine and PDX installed it with no problem. read on and judge for yourself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai in a PM to the seller, typer_126 on 8/15 or 8/16 (reply received on 8/16)
thanks for posting the pic of the reservoir. to clarify: the kit + the reservoir would be all i need (installation aside) to set up WI on an '02 WRX that doesn't have an existing IC sprayer reservoir?
Quote:
Originally Posted by typer_126 in a PM to shikataganai on 8/16
Hey Toshi,

Yep, the reservoir would pretty much complete the setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai to typer_126 in a PM sent 8/29
due to my own stupidity in not parsing your "06 reservoir" i assumed that it was the STi trunk mounted IC sprayer reservoir. to my dismay, when i opened the box at long last it was found to be an 06 windshield washer fluid reservoir. as i have an '02 it doesn't even fit anywhere, under the hood, in the trunk, anywhere else.

since i did ask you specifically whether the parts in this aquamist/reservoir setup were what i would need to set up my '02 wrx, and you replied in the affirmative (apparently incorrectly from what i hear from the PDX crew) i must ask you if i can return the reservoir.
i do not wish to have to sell it myself on nasioc, as i can't see any possible reason why someone would be searching for a windshield fluid reservoir -- it's not a common performance upgrade, no? and doesn't offer anything over stock besides the inconvenient bit about it not fitting '02 cars at all...
again, remember that the seller had stated "Yep, the reservoir would pretty much complete the setup" when i asked EXPLICITLY whether this would work with my '02 WRX. his reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by typer_126 to shikataganai in a PM sent 9/29
The idea with the 06 reservoir is that you mount it under the drivers side fender, like it is mounted on the 06's. The filler neck ends up in the battery area. This eliminates the need to run a pusher pump with a rear mounted reservoir (like the stock STi or the Spec C 12L tank), and also means you don't have to run water lines to the rear of the car. Now if you don't have an 06 (which I didn't either) it requires some custom brackets and possibly a smaller battery (I was using a braile). With that said, it does include all the neccasary parts to complet the WI system and I did very plainly describe and post an actual picture of the item. I'm sorry if you didn't buy what you thought you were buying, but I never tried to imply that this was a 12L Spec C tank.
my complaints:

1) the seller's later admission that the '06 reservoir would be a total hack job on an '02 WRX is not compatible (to any reasonably honest observer) with his statement that "Yep, the reservoir would pretty much complete the setup."
2) the seller implies that i was expecting a Spec C 12L reservoir. i was not expecting any such thing, but I WAS EXPECTING SOMETHING THAT WOULD WORK WITH MY 2002 WRX.

to the peanut gallery, am i being reasonable here? sure, i didn't know exactly what was entailed in the 2006 reservoir mounting, but i ASKED HIM DIRECTLY and he misled me, imo. who is in the wrong?

questions for NWIC in particular:

1) what should i do here? i paid $50 for the reservoir, and i can see no foreseeable reason why someone with a '06 would need a replacement reservoir so it's essentially unresellable.
2) should i contest it with paypal?
3) should i contest it with my cc company (amex)?
4) should i suck it up and accept all this, in which i feel i was misled, as just the price of doing business with the subie community?
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Last edited by shikataganai; 10-05-2006 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 10-01-2006, 04:36 PM   #2
shikataganai
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new PM from seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by typer_126 to shikataganai on oct 1
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying in your previous message. I'm quite insulted, and shocked, that you call me dishonest. I have never purposely misrepresented myself, what I was selling, or what would be involved in installing a water injection system. No WI installation is a bolt-in affair and I would have that that you would comprehend that fact that given that you are familiar with the very long thread in the WI forum.

You asked me if all you would for a complete system was the reservoir I had, and I told you yes. The Aquamist kit requires a reservoir (preferably with a pump), maybe some extra tubing, and that’s it. Once again, I’m sorry that you were confused about what type of reservoir this was, but that is through no deception on my part.

I bought it from Jamie at Chaplin Subaru early this year. If I could have returned it then. I would have. You’re more than welcome to contact her directly and see it is still possible.
again, i must ask the peanut gallery here: did this seller misrepresent his goods, given that i had directly asked him about fitment on my '02 wrx?
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Old 10-01-2006, 05:56 PM   #3
shikataganai
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Old 10-01-2006, 07:15 PM   #4
ej25power
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It seems like you assumed it was 100% bolt in. A custom bracket and a smaller battery does not qualify as a "hack job". I'm sure some who don't play with bolt on parts would find that offensive as well.

It will work with an '02 Impreza with some extra work, and complete the setup like he said. He did not mislead you.

If you had asked "Is it 100% bolt in?" and he didn't admit it would require some extra work, then you might have a case.

He also posted photos of the reservoir as well as stating he bought the '06 reservoir specifically for the WI kit.
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Old 10-01-2006, 07:29 PM   #5
sc00by4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej25power View Post
It seems like you assumed it was 100% bolt in. A custom bracket and a smaller battery does not qualify as a "hack job". I'm sure some who don't play with bolt on parts would find that offensive as well.

It will work with an '02 Impreza with some extra work, and complete the setup like he said. He did not mislead you.

If you had asked "Is it 100% bolt in?" and he didn't admit it would require some extra work, then you might have a case.

He also posted photos of the reservoir as well as stating he bought the '06 reservoir specifically for the WI kit.
+1.

sorry OP, but from my interpretation of the transaction, you had assumed that it was 100% bolt in. you do have all the components which is what I took from him saying "the resivoir would complete the set up".

a saying I learned a while back -
"when you assume you make ass out of u and me."
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:05 PM   #6
wrx_driver_2002
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In that thread, He posts a picture of the reservoir, Which is clearly nothing like the IC Spray tank in an STI. 11 days after he posted the picture, you had said sold to me... So it looks like you assumed, and didn't specifically ask which reservoir you were getting... In my opinion, the fault lies with you.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:30 PM   #7
Dyjital
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Sounds like one wanted bolt on easy stuff.

Seller mis understood any referenced to 'bolt on'.

Verification is key in purchases. Lesson learned? Unless the car had an option for a WI system for 2002 you should also assume there will be some custom work needing to be done.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:31 PM   #8
White 2.5rs
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:cough:
bolt on queen
:cough:
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:31 PM   #9
shikataganai
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx_driver_2002 View Post
In that thread, He posts a picture of the reservoir, Which is clearly nothing like the IC Spray tank in an STI. 11 days after he posted the picture, you had said sold to me... So it looks like you assumed, and didn't specifically ask which reservoir you were getting... In my opinion, the fault lies with you.
fair enough, and it's true, i had no idea that it was or wasn't an IC spray tank having never looked at said part closely in an STI. thanks for the opinions so far.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:33 PM   #10
shikataganai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White 2.5rs View Post
:cough:
bolt on queen
:cough:
yeah, i'm not an auto mechanic, and yes, i paid PDX Tuning to install and tune the WI setup. what's your point? stay out of my thread if you have nothing to add that's relevant.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:43 PM   #11
ej25power
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I think his point is, you seem to be scared off by custom fabrication, so that's what made this a big deal to you.

If PDX did everything for you, why didn't they just fab up a bracket (doesn't have to be pretty, just has to function) and get you a smaller battery? It shouldn't be hard for a shop with a rep like theirs.

Alex has done more custom fabrication that anyone I know (To my knowledge anyway), so that's probably where his opinion comes from. That guru under his title, that's not fronting.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:48 PM   #12
shikataganai
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when the reservoir was pulled out of the box PDX had no idea what to do with it, and the solution they came up with was to use my existing '02 windshield reservoir. the battery has been in the trunk ever since i bought the car so that wasn't an issue.

if pdx had suggested that the tank could have been used i would have had them do that, but it never came up. for that matter, can anyone verify that a 2006 reservoir indeed can be mounted under the fender w/ the feeder sticking up into the battery area, as the seller claims?
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:49 PM   #13
White 2.5rs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
yeah, i'm not an auto mechanic, and yes, i paid PDX Tuning to install and tune the WI setup. what's your point? stay out of my thread if you have nothing to add that's relevant.
I'm sorry I've had a few to drink.

Brackets are easy though You'd be surprised what scraps you can turn into decent looking brackets.

I honestly think you might have a 1/5 chance but I wouldn't persue it...I just dont think it'd turn out favorably for you

alex
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:53 PM   #14
shikataganai
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cool, thanks for returning to this sordid thread to clear up your post, alex.
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:56 PM   #15
ej25power
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Why don't you try to fit the 06 reservoir into your fender void? It's pretty easy to RnR a fender. If you don't feel like you're capable, I'm sure someone local can lend a hand.
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Old 10-01-2006, 09:05 PM   #16
shikataganai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej25power View Post
Why don't you try to fit the 06 reservoir into your fender void? It's pretty easy to RnR a fender. If you don't feel like you're capable, I'm sure someone local can lend a hand.
yeah, i might try that, at least to test fit it. but what's RnR? remove and replace?
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Old 10-01-2006, 09:08 PM   #17
ej25power
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Yea, remove and reinstall, replace, whatever
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:41 AM   #18
06stiwagon
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It seems like a crappy deal to me. The only thing that saves him is he did post a pic, but you not knowing what you were looking at it didn't do much good for you, I would say do more research and ask more questions, and be glad it was only $50. I hope that included shipping too because they sell new for $43.13 which it was nice of him to sell you a used part at a new cost, but once again you probably should have looked into it more. Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear.
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:46 AM   #19
AWD>FWD
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Yeah, you are going to have to bite the bullet on this one. He did not really mis-represent his goods.
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:50 AM   #20
shikataganai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06stiwagon View Post
once again you probably should have looked into it more. Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear.
fair enough, and again i welcome all comments. if the votes still show a majority in favor of me taking the loss and walking away after the morning/weekday crew sees this thread then that's precisely what i'll do.

next time i'll be mind-numbingly explicit as to not be subject to the honesty/good character or lack thereof of sellers. i thought i had covered my bases well enough with the PMs quoted in the first post, but apparently not.
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Old 10-02-2006, 12:35 PM   #21
shikataganai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
fair enough, and again i welcome all comments. if the votes still show a majority in favor of me taking the loss and walking away after the morning/weekday crew sees this thread then that's precisely what i'll do.
one solitary bump for the weekday crew. mods: i won't bump this further if it doesn't get more replies, have no fear
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:13 PM   #22
twizzstyle
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Yeah, I'm inclined to say that the buyer should ultimately be the one who has to find out for sure whether the part works or not, not the seller. They obviously don't have an 02 they can check it in (I skimmed through very quick, so hopefully I'm not missing anything).
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:22 PM   #23
shikataganai
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did you skim over the part where i asked the seller directly whether it'd work with my '02 wrx? doesn't asking this question (and receiving an answer in the affirmative, albeit a little vague) place the onus on the seller?

like i've written above, i thought i'd asked in enough detail that an honest seller would say "yeah, it'll fit, but only with significant modification", not "Yep, the reservoir would pretty much complete the setup".
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:37 PM   #24
BREWPUBEAVER
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it will work with your 02 wrx. PDX probly opted for useing your exsisting Windshield resivor cause it was cheaper for you. then making a custom bracket, routing the lines, and making it look real clean.

not saying this is what happend, just what could have happend.

look at it this way, you only had to pay 50 bucks to learn this lesson. not 2500 like i did...
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:21 PM   #25
shikataganai
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final update: so the tally is in, and 2/3 of NWIC seems to think i should suck it up, so i will (no contesting it with paypal or the like). but i'll try to sell it nonetheless. as the linked post says, profit (and learn) from my misfortune:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0#post15507730



i would also like to humbly submit that this is possibly the most artistic photo taken of a windshield washer reservoir ever. f/22, external flash, tripod, etc.
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