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Old 11-02-2006, 03:26 AM   #1
Dyno Flash
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Default Gt52 Turbo - Internal WG vs. EWG - Dyno Flash Case Study

Last week, I was feeling the Element GT52 Turbo big time

However, we ran into some clitches with the 19 psi wastegate actuator as we had boost creeping up to 21 psi up top (too much for 93 octane pump gas)

We ordered a new 9 psi internal gate actuator and SADLY it also had significant boost creep and was shooting up to 21 psi at red line

In order to better control the boost we added a Ultimate Racing upipe with tial 38 mm EGW and dump tube with Forge Unos MBC

Also, while we were at it the Agency Power header was added - very nice unit 4 into 1 (similar to HKS)

Mod list is

2006 STI - (dyno sheet erroneously says 2004)
Agency Power header
Ultimate Racing upipe and 38 mm Tial EWG
Element Gt52 Turbo
Perrin injectors
Buschur fuel pump
Perrin BIG MAF
HKS Exhuast

Custom Ecutek Easy Ecu tune by Dyno Flash

Here is the difference

same 19 psi of boost - same pump gas 93 octane

Huge gains with the header and EWG



My final answer on this turbo - its a very well balanced quick spooling enjoyable street turbo which will get you well into the 11's on pump gas

However, no way its going to work well with an internal gate and by the time you add in the 1800 plus price tag and EWG set up you are nearly in a rotated mount Gt30 price leauge

My sum up - pricey unit which kicks ass on the street

Al
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Old 11-02-2006, 08:08 AM   #2
WRX-Blue-Mica
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Great Info ... Thanks Al
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:11 AM   #3
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Damn Al, You are the man!! I am going to call you this Next week to come up there, Car is almost out the bodyshop. And bigMaf is setting in my closet at home.
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:18 AM   #4
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Am I seeing this right? One graph shows better low-end whilst the other shows better top-end? Which is which in terms of which car has the EWG and has the IWG?
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:40 AM   #5
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the loss of low end could be from the header?
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
Am I seeing this right? One graph shows better low-end whilst the other shows better top-end? Which is which in terms of which car has the EWG and has the IWG?
EWG is the blue.
IWG is the red.

I would assume that pretty obvious as EWG's always make more power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
the loss of low end could be from the header?
from what al said, he only added the EWG and uppipe.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:10 AM   #7
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I know I sound like a broken record, but for $1800+$600 for EWG, why bother?

EDIT: I suppose I should read what Al says.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:19 AM   #8
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Nice work, Al! Why didn't you tell me you were tuning all of Jimmy's cars?

Darryl
www.ultimate-racing.com
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
Am I seeing this right? One graph shows better low-end whilst the other shows better top-end? Which is which in terms of which car has the EWG and has the IWG?

Keep in mind that the IWG was creaping at high RPMs, the EWG was holding 19psi. At some point (Al, waht RPM did the IWG start creaping?) it would not make sense to compare the two curves.
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:19 PM   #10
alfriedesq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Racing View Post
Nice work, Al! Why didn't you tell me you were tuning all of Jimmy's cars?

Darryl
www.ultimate-racing.com
We are loving the Ultimate Racing products for sure

I am hoping to get my car back on the Dyno with the EWG with the stock VF39 unit and sdee what gains it makes on that set up

On my car particularly the Ultimate upipe fit like a glove with that Tial 44 EWG - well done
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:21 PM   #11
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you figure if its gonna be named gt52 then it'd be better than a gt42 haha... the title got me excited but then i thought to myself i've never heard of the turbo before so its prob gonna be in the gt30r power range.

Looks like a great power curve, pics of the engine/turbo?
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
Am I seeing this right? One graph shows better low-end whilst the other shows better top-end? Which is which in terms of which car has the EWG and has the IWG?


What is going on in that graph is that one car the EWG one hits 19 psi and then tapers down to 18 - (mainatining a totally safe pump gas boost level)

The other with the IWG hits 19 psi but then after 6,000 the IWG and down pipe CAN NOT flow enough exhuast gasses to by pass the turbine wheel and the boost is uncontrolable and creeping up to 21 psi which is why the power band picks up a bit at the top. At the same boost level on the low part the EWG car is making loads more low end power.

The main issue is that with the high exhuast manifold back pressure of the IWG car the cylinders can not freely evacuate the spent combusion gasses and this leads to knocking and timing retard - this and the high 21 psi boost level are not good for pump gas

This is why I would recomend this turbo ONLY with a EWG
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caplin 2.5 View Post
you figure if its gonna be named gt52 then it'd be better than a gt42 haha... the title got me excited but then i thought to myself i've never heard of the turbo before so its prob gonna be in the gt30r power range.

Looks like a great power curve, pics of the engine/turbo?
Yes - I do not like the Gt52 name myself

Its a hybrid Gt30 and mistsubishi combo

I think the Gt52 is a bit misleading - esapecially for guys like me who use a real GT42R
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordata View Post
Damn Al, You are the man!! I am going to call you this Next week to come up there, Car is almost out the bodyshop. And bigMaf is setting in my closet at home.
Ok Gordata let me know when you are ready

AL
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caplin 2.5 View Post
you figure if its gonna be named gt52 then it'd be better than a gt42 haha... the title got me excited but then i thought to myself i've never heard of the turbo before so its prob gonna be in the gt30r power range.
I believe that the Element turbos are named after their lb/min flow. The Element GT52 is 52lb/min turbo and the Element GT65 is a 65lb/min turbo. I have no idea why they stuck the GT on the front of the name though as it does make things confusing.
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driggity View Post
I believe that the Element turbos are named after their lb/min flow. The Element GT52 is 52lb/min turbo and the Element GT65 is a 65lb/min turbo. I have no idea why they stuck the GT on the front of the name though as it does make things confusing.
+1... why not ET52 or ET65? sounds like a pretty cool name to me.
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Old 11-02-2006, 02:05 PM   #17
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Agreed
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Old 11-02-2006, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfriedesq View Post
I am hoping to get my car back on the Dyno with the EWG with the stock VF39 unit and sdee what gains it makes on that set up

On my car particularly the Ultimate upipe fit like a glove with that Tial 44 EWG - well done
Very interested, keep everyone posted Lot of folks interested in what this can do since headers + EWG up/DP would be a very cool street/pump alternative to a 20g at a comparable price point for folks w/ stock cars looking for the upgrade.
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Old 11-02-2006, 05:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by verc View Post
Very interested, keep everyone posted Lot of folks interested in what this can do since headers + EWG up/DP would be a very cool street/pump alternative to a 20g at a comparable price point for folks w/ stock cars looking for the upgrade.

Franky, I am getting rather board of the stock turbo

It has no balls

Its weak and I really dont know if I have the patience to watse a lot of time trying to squeze the last whp I can out of it and tryu to go 11's

I at least have to get it on the dyno and maybe go to the track one time if I am lucky before I put in the gt35
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Old 11-02-2006, 05:53 PM   #20
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This is definitely the highest reading dyno dynamics I have ever seen

Whats stock on this dyno? 280whp?
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Old 11-02-2006, 05:58 PM   #21
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where are you seeing full boost on this setup??
looks like a killer street setup.
any comparison to 20g's or sz 49s
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
Franky, I am getting rather board of the stock turbo

It has no balls

Its weak and I really dont know if I have the patience to watse a lot of time trying to squeze the last whp I can out of it and tryu to go 11's

I at least have to get it on the dyno and maybe go to the track one time if I am lucky before I put in the gt35


You make me laugh (in a good way). You were soooo excited about the EWG and the VF39 about 10 days ago. Now you say it has no balls and you want a GT35. LOL... That's priceless.

You are too accustomed to the Mitsu's that come outta the factory with a pretty decent OEM turbo. The EJ257 should have been released with at least a TD06H-18G (if not bigger) imho.
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Old 11-02-2006, 11:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfriedesq View Post
Yes - I do not like the Gt52 name myself

Its a hybrid Gt30 and mistsubishi combo

I think the Gt52 is a bit misleading - esapecially for guys like me who use a real GT42R
*homer simpson druel* gt42r *druel* In my dreams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by driggity View Post
I believe that the Element turbos are named after their lb/min flow. The Element GT52 is 52lb/min turbo and the Element GT65 is a 65lb/min turbo. I have no idea why they stuck the GT on the front of the name though as it does make things confusing.
Thanks for that useful peice of info, it wouldn't happen to be a garret turbo would it? that could explain the GT maybs I uno, only element can tell us.
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Old 11-03-2006, 12:50 AM   #24
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that is exactly what it stands for GT52 Garrett Turbo 52 lb/min compressor wheel.
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Old 11-03-2006, 03:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer04STi View Post


You make me laugh (in a good way). You were soooo excited about the EWG and the VF39 about 10 days ago. Now you say it has no balls and you want a GT35. LOL... That's priceless.

You are too accustomed to the Mitsu's that come outta the factory with a pretty decent OEM turbo. The EJ257 should have been released with at least a TD06H-18G (if not bigger) imho.
I brellay wanted to try and do some work to find that ,last ouunce of power in the stock Vf39

But it seems its just a weak punk turbo - I am loosding interest
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