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Old 01-26-2007, 01:36 PM   #1
gabedude
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Talking OSECU 2006-2007 WRX Stage 1 map comparisons

For all you guys bashing the OSECU maps (2006-2007 OSECU stage 1 and OSECU-EF stage 1) and open source tuning, I have datalogs of both stock stage1 free maps. One of them is really near the edge and the tuning strategy is somewhat different (more boost, less advance, VVT stuff). The other takes a different approach.

I see 0 knock (KC and IM pegged at max values all the time during boost) on the "EF" map. On the "OSEC" map, I saw what could have been knock, ECU pulled 1 degree but the KC near that area was not normalized, so you cannot tell if it was ping or the ECU code doing a ramp function.

I prefer the "EF" map. It looks to be a very safe tune and pulls nicely.

Here's the link with HP/TQ graph comparison based on engine load (you will have to register to see the forum):

http://www.plasmatize.com/osecuroms/...t=295&start=30

Seriously, though, if you do not know the basics of how an engine works, then throwing a short ram, TB exhaust, etc on your car without any tune is bad. Plus, a tuner does not drive your car everyday. He is not going to listen to ping because he isn't there! If anyone decides to mod a WRX, they need to know about how an engine works first, whether they are using a tuner or tuning it themselves. At the very least, they need to know what knock and ping sounds like, so they can log it, post it and drive slow till someone helps them fix their map who has more knowledge, then log again.

How may tuners have caused customers blown engines? ALOT. If that customer was educated, had a knocklight or logged, then he would not have blown up.

Plus if you learn to tune and log yourself, a trip to the dyno is much cheaper than a tune.
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Last edited by gabedude; 01-27-2007 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Changed cyliner pressure to engine load
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:39 PM   #2
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We need a login over there, rehost?
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:45 PM   #3
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You can just register. Wait, I'll host it.

Open Source Stage 1 2006-2007 WRX map compare

Last edited by gabedude; 01-26-2007 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Hosting spreadsheet
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:14 PM   #4
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Thanks. That's neat information to have.
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:40 PM   #5
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The 'OSEC Stg1' map that you used does not have the same 'timing fix' that is applied to the 'EF' map. That is why the timing takes a dive at ~3800rpm. Some details on this topic can be found here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1155809
http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=666
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:59 PM   #6
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Thanks, I see the details, but I didn't find where they found the exact reason in the ECU code that causes that drop in KC. I suppose they found the fine correction table eventually.

Anyway, doesn't really matter as this EF map will be my base map and I'll only change it if it starts pinging.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:07 PM   #7
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damn, those are 'good' numbers for stage 1 now i need more power for my stg 2
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
I prefer the "EF" map. It looks to be a very safe tune and pulls nicely.

Here's the link with HP/TQ graph comparison based on cylinder pressure.
WTH is "EF" supposed to mean?

Your HP/TQ numbers are not based on cylinder pressure. They're based strictly on the engine load value logged by the ECU and completely ignore the effects of spart advance, intake valve advance and air fuel ratio on HP/TQ. They're meaningless.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
Your HP/TQ numbers are not based on cylinder pressure. They're based strictly on the engine load value logged by the ECU and completely ignore the effects of spart advance, intake valve advance and air fuel ratio on HP/TQ. They're meaningless.
^^^Truth
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT] View Post
WTH is "EF" supposed to mean?

Your HP/TQ numbers are not based on cylinder pressure. They're based strictly on the engine load value logged by the ECU and completely ignore the effects of spart advance, intake valve advance and air fuel ratio on HP/TQ. They're meaningless.
Umm, do you think I don't know that? Its a simple estimation and gives an idea of the power curve is all. I never said it was making that power. Plus you can use it to compare maps to maps running on the same car in the same conditions. The point of this is to show that the EF map holds power till redline and is a bit smoother than the other map. You can also see in the spreadsheet other values that are important, especially the +6 pegged KC and that the IAM is pegged at 1. Its a good map.

Check this thread out about load and TQ relationships, I am just using it to get an idea of the power curve comparing the two maps. Its far from accurate , but its better than nothing.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1099390&page=8

The EF map is one ev8siv3 made and he denoted it is a test map. IIRC, it stands for "EconoFormance" and it is very smooth.

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Old 01-27-2007, 10:51 AM   #11
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Consider the case where you jack up the boost, severely retard spark advance and drop the AFR down to 9.5:1. You get more engine load without knock but less HP/TQ.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druxboyz View Post
damn, those are 'good' numbers for stage 1 now i need more power for my stg 2
Take those numbers with a grain of salt. You can't compare those to anything but my car and use it to compare maps. Also look at the table and the other graphed lines. The EF map is much smoother and pulls nicely. Look at the thread link I posted above about why I graphed a HP/TQ numbers. Just to get an idea of the curve is all. I can tell you that the curves fit the way the power of the car feels. The OSEC map feels a bit peaky and rough while the EF map is nice and linear.

I have a gtech in the head unit I just installed. I'll get a reading off that thing in a few days. I may dyno it soon just to see what power it really is making.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT] View Post
Consider the case where you jack up the boost, severely retard spark advance and drop the AFR down to 9.5:1. You get more engine load without knock but less HP/TQ.
Yeah, I know man. I use it to look at the curves is all.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:03 AM   #14
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I'm no mechanical engineer, so if someone has a better formula I can use for estimating the curve from my logs, go ahead and gimme the link.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT] View Post
Consider the case where you jack up the boost, severely retard spark advance and drop the AFR down to 9.5:1. You get more engine load without knock but less HP/TQ.
Yeah thats what the OSECU map did, and it hit a max load of 2.5 (5.0 for you 16 bit guys) and I can tell you that it felt like more torque, but the power near redline really drops off on the OSECU map, you can feel it but the graph doesn't really show it. The EF map uses a good advance rate and lower boost and it feels much more powerful than the other map in the upper rev ranges.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:47 AM   #16
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The best answer would be to use vehicle speed or RPM to estimate acceleration rate. Knowing how much your car weighs together with acceleration rate gives you a more encompassing number. The problem here is the logger doesn't log very fast, giving a very volatile number.
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Old 01-27-2007, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
Take those numbers with a grain of salt. You can't compare those to anything but my car and use it to compare maps. Also look at the table and the other graphed lines. The EF map is much smoother and pulls nicely. Look at the thread link I posted above about why I graphed a HP/TQ numbers. Just to get an idea of the curve is all. I can tell you that the curves fit the way the power of the car feels. The OSEC map feels a bit peaky and rough while the EF map is nice and linear.

I have a gtech in the head unit I just installed. I'll get a reading off that thing in a few days. I may dyno it soon just to see what power it really is making.
yea i'm aware that they are very rough estimates and arent what is truely what the car makes. I've been using those formulas in my graphs and calculations between my roms for comparisons sake and they seem to work well for that purpose.

fwiw, my stg 2 after those 'rough' calculations gets 280tq and 247hp, which is why i said your numbers look nice im still working on my tune slowly
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Old 01-27-2007, 04:59 PM   #18
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Cool, it is quite useful it seems for tuning without a dyno. You get close at least.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:41 PM   #19
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I am glad I read this before I flash my stage 1 map, I think I will try out the EF map first
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:39 PM   #20
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I'll be doing more logging soon, but so far, the EF map is much better on gas and it is mostly smooth. Better than stock for sure.
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