|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-04-2007, 09:52 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Tuning for /water injection
Looking for some input with people who have first hand experience tuning meth setups. I'm not looking to push my setup to the limits, just want a strong, safe tune. Here's my setup:
06 wrx Cobb catted tbe Ebay TMIC VF39 Coolingmist stage 1 kit (not installed yet) Any advice as far as when to trigger it (boost level) and what afrs to run on 91 octane with 50/50 meth?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
|
04-07-2007, 05:43 AM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 91596
Join Date: Jul 2005
|
I would set the unit to start spraying near 6psi and progressively spray until 15, and go full bore from there up to how ever much boost you want to run, really the sky is the limit (within reason) with meth.
Run 11.2-11.6 AFR, you can go leaner, but as a safety precaution I don't. You'll be able to get really agressive with timing with meth as well, dont forget about that....a lot of people push the boost and forget the timing! Good luck. |
04-07-2007, 10:40 AM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Thanks so much for the reply. I'm using a single stage kit so I don't have progressive control. I was thinking about waiting until about 10-12 psi to trigger it so I wouldn't go through too much meth except at wot. Does that sound right? BTW, I'm running 18.5 psi without meth, will probably run 20 on meth.
|
04-09-2007, 06:56 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Based on the advice of a local tuner here's what I'm going to do. He said since it's a single stage kit I should trigger at 12psi. I'm going to look at a bunch of logs and find out what rpm/load I tend to hit 12psi at and then make all my fuel and timing changes at rpm/load levels just above that. I plan on running 11.6 to 1 and run as much timing as the car will tolerate without pulling timing. I'll post back with results.
|
04-09-2007, 10:03 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 14141
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: [email protected] @ 5800 ft on 13T
Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX |
10-12 psi is about right for the trigger point for a single jet system. I used 10 psi on mine. That is low enough that you won't be spraying all the time, but early enough thatyou are highly unlikely to get into trouble by spraying too late.
11.6:1 is a good conservative starting point, as mentioned above you can go leaner but only if you are willing to accept the consequences of lost water spray. On that timing if you do it that way you are almost guaranteed to over advance the timing. The general rule of thumb is to pull the timing back about 2 - 3 degrees from the first signs of detonation. You gain very little by running more advance than minimum max torque timing (assuming you can get to it), all over advance does it over stress the rod bearings, piston crowns, rings and head gaskets with excess cylinder pressures which occure too early in the power stroke to do you any good. The best way is on a dyno, but you can also sort out the timing with road tunes. You should set the timing just slighlty less than the timing that gives max power. Your system will likely get you timing that is several degrees too far advanced. Once you get the best timing, add boost not timing. Larry |
04-09-2007, 10:54 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.
|
04-20-2007, 11:48 AM | #7 |
Sammo Hung
Moderator Member#: 10613
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: N Fla / S Ga
Vehicle:2002 USDM WRX WRB |
the advise of running afr of 11.x is a safe afr, but you will not
see as much gain from the meth or meth/water injection. but I would consult with your meth or meth/water injection manufacturer for advise |
04-20-2007, 08:05 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Update: I installed my kit on Wednesday so I'll begin tuning sometime next week. I drove the car with the system on and it ran ok considering I haven't changed the tune. I have it disabled right now. I used a windshield washer reservoir from a Buick Regency that has a low level indicator. I installed it where the intake silencer used to be. It fit just right and only cost 4.99 at the junk yard. I ran an led for pump activation and one for low level to the steering column.
|
04-21-2007, 12:45 AM | #9 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 115771
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Spokane WA
Vehicle:2006 WRX WAGON OS Stage 1 |
cool, can't wait to see the results after its tuned
|
04-21-2007, 10:47 AM | #10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
I'm going to dyno it with my meth tune and my pump tune on the same day to get a good comparison.
|
04-21-2007, 07:03 PM | #11 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 14141
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: [email protected] @ 5800 ft on 13T
Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX |
Quote:
Larry |
|
04-21-2007, 10:18 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
I believe it was a 1993. The reservoir was on the driver side mounted right up against the strut tower. I went to the u pull it and spent about an hour looking for one that fit. So that I could fill it from the hole where the intake silencer was I grabbed a filler neck from another reservoir. I believe that car was a 1988 Ford Tempo. Sorry I should have taken pictures.
|
05-03-2007, 09:47 AM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Results are in! Made 300/341 on 91, no meth. Made 329/382 on meth. I started at 12:1 and made 317/371 then richened up to 11.5:1 and added some timing to get my higher numbers. I was running 18.5 psi without meth and 20 with meth. I fell just short of my 330 hp goal, but I was only expecting about 360 torque so I'm really happy with how it came out.
Stage 2 Stis on this dyno usually do about 280whp and 315wtq. My stock turbo stage 2 did 250/305. The dyno boost gauge read a little high. |
05-03-2007, 10:10 AM | #14 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 86356
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Vehicle:2018 Aprilia Tuono v4 1100 |
Oh man that's awesome. I must do this.
|
05-03-2007, 10:51 AM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
One thing I wanted to add about tuning it. On the factory 32 bit ecu rom they have the boost control cut out when the IAM falls below .35 or something really low. Since I'm running methanol and a system failure could be bad, I have it switch to wastegate pressure if the IAM falls to .90. That's a pretty good failsafe. The slightest bit of knock from a bad tank of gas or a system failure would take away boost control. I know the IAM will drop because just before I started tuning the methanol I got a bad tank of gas and my IAM fell to .81 when I had never seen it fall before. My logged a/f raios were 11.9:1 with an 11:1 target. Must have had water in it or something.
|
05-03-2007, 12:40 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:2009 G8 GT Cammed, sprayed, stalled |
Great results! Did you consider triggering the injection on MAF voltage as opposed to boost level?
Basically, figure out what MAFV is generated at xx psi boost, then what load that MAFV creates. Then the tuning is very easy because you simply rename a column in the fuel and timing tables at that load and tune the columns to the right of it for the meth. This is an idea I was investigating before. It does require a simple controller though, not simply a pressure switch. |
05-03-2007, 06:16 PM | #17 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 115771
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Spokane WA
Vehicle:2006 WRX WAGON OS Stage 1 |
that's sweet!!! Good numbers
|
05-03-2007, 07:40 PM | #18 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Quote:
|
|
05-04-2007, 08:12 AM | #19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:2009 G8 GT Cammed, sprayed, stalled |
Oh, I had found a DIY controller for like $20 that will even do progressive control, as it will vary the voltage output to a 10A load.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=1522 Basically you did the same thing (w/o being progressive) but I thought the MAFV route might be a little easier to tune. The end result is the same. Wicked power as your dyno plot shows ! |
05-04-2007, 08:46 AM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Thanks. The car feels great. Who says vf39's aren't big enough for a 2.5? I think it's an excellent street turbo.
|
05-05-2007, 09:51 AM | #21 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 53665
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Northboro, MA
Vehicle:2022 BMW M240i Thundernight |
Quote:
The dyno numbers look really good. Good job with the setup. Triggering on MAFV seems like the best option. When it gets cold, you'll see the same loads which may happen before your 12psi trigger that you would see above that same trigger during warmer conditions. You'll be running timing and fueling profile then without the injection being activated that you would now with it on. It may give you some trouble down the road. Pressure is not the best way of gauging when to trigger the spray because it does not tell the full story. It really comes down to how much air you're taking in which drives your load and that dials in your ignition and fueling map locations which is what you tuned for the injection. Doing it based on MAF is safer because it is what your maps are tuned on, not pressure. You may get yourself into trouble when weather gets cold. Seriously consider this option. Again, the results looks great. Now it's time to make it as reliable and consistent as possible. |
|
05-05-2007, 10:04 AM | #22 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:2006 WRX Limited Wag 9.8@150 |
Quote:
|
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Protuners that tune for water/meth injection | STI_2NR | AccessPort | 0 | 10-11-2006 07:42 PM |
Race gas tune Vs water injection? | 03MBP | Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling | 18 | 08-17-2005 01:17 PM |
Where to get the clogged jet/water flow indicator sensor for water injection cheap? | garie | Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling | 5 | 06-07-2005 04:55 PM |
I need a water can for water injection, any ideas? | AntiochCali | Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling | 3 | 06-02-2003 09:57 AM |
BIG water tank for water injection | DarthChicken | Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling | 14 | 07-25-2002 03:58 AM |