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05-09-2007, 02:54 PM | #1 |
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How to make timing adjustments on Enginuity?
After doing a lot of logging, I know that I want to retard my timing a tad on the top end of things (6K RPM+) to reduce knock (-KC). I am just unsure of how to go about adjusting it exactly. I know to adjust using small increments , but what cells am I adjusting the values in? Do I adjust at the RPM/Load I am seeing the knock occur?
My main concern is that I do not want to throw off the ECU by having the difference between the cells being too great. Is this a reasonable concern? Thanks, Tim
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05-09-2007, 06:39 PM | #2 |
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05-09-2007, 11:04 PM | #3 |
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it seems that if the ECU is still hearing knock before 6000RPM, whatever happened before knock listening turns off keeps happening. so if he is at -1 KC at 5999RPM, it will keep -1KC up till redline. atleast thats how things look to me on most of my logs.
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05-10-2007, 01:51 AM | #4 |
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Oddly enough, my IAM is still a strong 16 throughout my entire log, but my KC after about 6K SOMETIMES dips to -.5. Most logs I am sitting right at 2 after 6K. Here is an example.
Mods are: MY02 WRX MT, gutted up, ERZ DP, K&N filter, STi axel back, intake silencer delete It is a 91 Octance map and I run 93. Negative KC: Normal KC: How am I getting negative KC after 6K RPM then? I am aware that the motor's knock sensor stops listening to engine noise after 6K, thats why my N00b self is thrown for a loop. Last edited by WRX2ning; 05-10-2007 at 03:56 AM. |
05-10-2007, 03:14 AM | #5 |
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If that KC is "normal" either you have some funky timing maps or your car is knocking a good deal at high loads. But I can only guess.
http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=1713 |
05-10-2007, 03:44 AM | #6 |
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If I was knocking, my IAM wouldnt be 16, would it? I do see some timing being taken away at the same time my KC drops. Should I pull back timing a tad right there?
drees, in reference to your link, I cannot post a log of my whole RPM bandwidth because my clutch slips under full load under 4.5K RPM. The log would look all jacked up. I also purchased my map, so I am not allowed to distribute that. Last edited by WRX2ning; 05-10-2007 at 03:50 AM. |
05-10-2007, 08:32 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
Anyway, you want to reduce the base timing in the RPM/load areas where you are seeing knock and then smooth the adjacent cells to keep the timing smooth. |
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05-10-2007, 08:44 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
IAM might still be 16 because it is only reevaluated in a more narrow rpm and load range. |
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05-10-2007, 08:58 AM | #9 |
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I appreciate all your input to help explain this to me. It is really helping me out.
This might need to be another post, but I am confused when it comes to the KC map and the base ignition map. How do these correlate exactly? In other words, if I change a value on the KC map, what do I have to change on the base ignition map to make everything work properly? |
05-10-2007, 09:54 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
KC = timing advance * (iam/16) + feedback correction + fine learning correction Total ignition timing = base timing + KC + other timing compensations Other timing compensations include those based on coolant temp and intake temp and a number of others. |
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05-10-2007, 11:20 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
As mentioned, the ECU only reduced IAM if it sees knock during certain RPM/load ranges. Stock for the 03 WRX, that is between 2000-4400 rpm and 1.0-3.6 load. Hmm, you might want to read the terms of your purchase, some tuners don't even want you to post logs for fear of someone reverse engineering their work. Frankly, if their tune generates logs like yours they can keep their precious "IP". |
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05-10-2007, 03:32 PM | #12 | |
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blkscooby, I slowly started to reduce timing at the RPM/Load cells I was seeing serious timing/KC drop (in the fashion you described), and my KC has gone back up to the map's specified KC. Thanks for the help |
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05-11-2007, 03:03 AM | #13 | |
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Seriously: In both logs, generally when KC gets close to zero for an extended period, the ECU has seen some sustained knock. In the "Neg KC" log I see 2 instances of the ECU seeing a decent knock event (line 73 & 75) where it pulled 2* of timing teach. In the "Normal KC" log I see 1 instance of the ECU seeing a decent knock event at line 61 where it pulled 2* of timing. What is the map's KC value at those load points? The stock map is 7+ so the ECU could be pulling 5* of timing. The stock ECU wil generally _increase_ KC above 6k RPM so that the ECU has more authority to pull timing when the IAM drops to reduce the chance of excessive knock in the case of bad fuel, clogged fuel filters, etc. Any time I see a car knocking like this at full throttle but with the IAM still pegged tells me that the map is way too aggressive at high loads the map hasn't adjusted the rough correction ranges to account for the higher loads the ECU is seeing and also hasn't had the light/moderate loads tuned to match the high load areas. Please go read the Enginuity Tuning FAQ it answers a few basic questions like these and more (but is still very rough around the edges). |
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05-11-2007, 07:29 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
To answer your question, the map value for KC at line 61 is 5.98. So it is nowhere close. I forgot to log load in the first log so I dont know what the map value is for lines 73/75 Last edited by WRX2ning; 05-11-2007 at 07:35 AM. |
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05-11-2007, 12:40 PM | #15 |
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I have also noticed that many people forget to rescale the fuel and timing maps which can cause them to run lean/ knock when the added power causes higher engine loads.
I ALWAYS do this first to ensure safety. |
05-11-2007, 12:54 PM | #16 |
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I wish I had a wideband to effectivley tune my fuel. There is no other way besides using an EGT guage, right?
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05-11-2007, 01:31 PM | #17 | ||||
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Vehicle:2003 Silver Wagon Tuned with Enginuity |
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Someone posted an open design for a WBO2 controller on the Enginuity site I think for like $50 or something so you just need to add the WBO2 which costs about $50-70. Here's the thread, look at the end for more info: http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.p...and+controller Here's the site: http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm Costs $45 for the DIY version and $55 for the built version. They must be selling OK since the site says they are out until May 21st. |
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