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Old 08-17-2007, 10:42 AM   #1
no-coast-punk
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Default Things I REALLY hate about the Hydra.

Disclaimer: I am no novice to the Hydra system. I have the first version 2.5 box that was delivered to a customer in the US. We average 5-10 cars a week coming through our shop for Dyno tuning. We have NEVER had A SINGLE engine we tuned pop on the dyno or off that wasn't due to some other mechanical failure (someone else put the engine together and it spun a bearing after it comes off the dyno, oil starvation, etc). I'd like to think I know a few things about engine management. Oh yeah, I have both the home and cell numbers for the US developer stored in my phone. Hell, I even know where he lives. No, the US developer is not Phil. No I will not give out his info.

Things that I REALLY HATE about the Hydra:

1) The software is EXTREMELY unstable. 20-30 crashes during a dyno session is very normal. It usually causes the serial interface in the laptop to lock open as well requiring a restart of the laptop. We have tried many different laptops with every serial adaper under the sun with no luck.
2) Did I mention unstable? We found a glitch that rears its ugly head every so often. During a tuning session it's not uncommon to have a set of maps revert back to what they were like 4 pulls/changes prior. Can be nice and dangerous if 4 pulls prior was very lean. Doesn't happen often. But it does happen.
3) Something causes the maps to get corrupted in the units every so often if you are running in closed loop mode. I've seen two cars that simply would not start until a laptop was hooked up and had maps re-uploaded.
4) The "autotune" feature sucks balls.
5) Lack of ability to appropriately deal with injector response. The box has just 4 options to choose for injector response. If you have say... a 3.2 ohm injector you are ****ed. Because the only options you have in that range is 2.5 or 4. Expect the car to always idle like ass with ****ty throttle response. The way they deal with dead time and response also sucks balls (oh wait, it doesn't deal with this).
6) The throttle tip in mapping is a joke. I've NEVER driven a Hydra car that has "great" throttle response. I have tried for thousands of miles of road tuning to get my RS to respond the way it should to no avail. It has a pretty stock STi engine. Injectors aren't huge (and were actually recomended by the developer because they worked well with the unit). Turbo is a custom unit about the size of a 20g. It still doesn't have the throttle response of a stock STi. Anybody who has driven a stock vs. correctly tuned STi knows there is much to be desired even in the stock throttle response.
7) Things that even really ****ty systems like the e-manage have (the ability to manually input a percentage change to a section of a map for instance) the Hydra lacks. Even if you manage to get past all of the other glaring faults... it's just a pain in the ass to tune them because the interface is so kludgy (no ability to select cells with the mouse? Are you god damn serious?).
8) The fact I am locked out of control over inputs/outputs or how the aux. maps behave. Screw that. It's nonsense that I have to mail a unit in with a few days of down time to change how the inputs/outputs behave. Changing heads to ones with a different cam/crank sensor? Sorry, you have to mail that in.
9) The fact that I have to pay for bloody software/firmware updates just to address glaring issues in the old software/firmware. Half of the glaring issues aren't even addressed.
10) Maps are randomly password protected. If you try going from one car to another and they different password protection you are totally bent over and reamed by the software. Getting locked out of maps you were just working on is no fun. There is nothing like a "key ring" so that you can 100% reliably move from one car to another without dealing with some password issue. The only way I have found around this is to call Phil and have him send completely unlocked maps for both vehicles.

This is not a knock against Phil. He's a good guy and I don't know how in the hell he puts up with this system. The few times I have needed to call him he's been mostly helpful.

With many of the stability complaints I have, both Phil and the developer say they have never ran into that issue. I know I'm not crazy though because I have talked to several other tuners about this. They act relieved when I ask them about the Crashy McCrashalot box because they thought they were crazy too.

I could keep going and going and going about all of the things I hate about the Hydra. I woke up in a crabby mood this morning. I'm working with an Autronic on a rally car right now. Everytime I work a good system that isn't a Hydra it makes me annoyed to think about jumping in the RS to drive to work. Screw it, I'll take the motorcycle even though it's raining.

For a hobyist who is going to spend LOTS of time road tuning it themselves and then spend a few hours on a dyno afterwards to clean it up... it's an OK system if you can deal with the hundreds of glaring issues. But for a customer who can't comfortably tune it themselves and has to pay us $150/hour for dyno tuning it's a horrible solution. Every time the software crashes it takes about 10 minutes to get everything re-started and re-synched. At $150/hr that's about $30 every time it crashes. I remember doing an STi that took 7 HOURS of time on the dyno before it would start and idle and drive correctly. We did a 650whp Honda on a better system (autronic) with identical injectors that took about 10 minutes to get starting and idling correctly.

There is a reason that the only shop in the state of Colorado that will come within a mile of the Gaydra has stories like this:
http://www.highaltitudeimports.com/s...ad.php?t=55436
posted all over the internet about them.
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:09 PM   #2
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note to self stay away from hydra.
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:17 PM   #3
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I don't notice any stability problems with the software AT ALL. Seriously. I think the only way I can *make* it crash would be to yank out my USB-to-serial adapter while the software was online with the ECU.

Aside from that:
  • Why can't I choose to datalog what I want to datalog?
  • Idle control on my car has been a B*@#H for a long time. On some days, no problems at all... on others, the Hydra acts like it's possessed. I even sent it in to get checked out, and this thing is STILL messing up. Seems to be related to the Hydra itself getting too hot.
  • I managed to get an unlock code for my box directly from Hydra... why the hell was it "locked" in the first place? I bought a standalone, therefore, I *want* to see ALL of the features and options... even if I shouldn't be changing them.
  • DBW control = AWFUL. Why does 100% pedal NOT equal 100% throttle? (at least, not the last time I checked)... Why isn't there a map to fix/adjust this?
  • No functional copy/paste for a single cell or range of cells.
  • No percent change function for a single cell or range of cells.
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:49 PM   #4
no-coast-punk
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I don't know what the deal is on the crashing thing. I think it only happens if you start making lots of changes. I drove all the way from LA to Colorado with the laptop hooked up and it was ok. I didn't change anything. As soon as i get on the dyno and start making changes with ANY hydra car with ANY laptop. Goodbye.

I'm not even running DBW. Can't stand it. Kept the cable throttle when I did the swap.

The DBW control is pretty godamn annoying too. I forgot to add that to my list.

The idle control on non DBW cars isn't horrible.... once you spend weeks screwing with it.

I talked to the developer for an hour on the phone once about features I would like to see in the new 2.7 firmware.

When I confronted him about the percentage change thing he was like "why would you want to do that? If you want to make a percentage change just scale the injectors" *bangs head on wall*

Not a single bloody thing I asked for was changed.
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-coast-punk View Post
The idle control on non DBW cars isn't horrible.... once you spend weeks screwing with it.
Mine will work *wonderfully*....

...and then, out of nowhere, it's idling at 1500rpm... then 2000rpm... then, maybe, it won't hold an idle at all, and the car just stalls... finally, it will go back to normal, like nothing ever happened at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no-coast-punk View Post
When I confronted him about the percentage change thing he was like "why would you want to do that? If you want to make a percentage change just scale the injectors" *bangs head on wall*
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:27 PM   #6
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Yikes you have problems I just can't relate to. I'm not trying to instigate an argument because you are having the problems you are having but I'll add my 2 cents an let everyone else post their positive and negative comments.

If you are having connection issues the software will never work right and you will end up with check sum errors and the Hydra will revert to the original fuel and spark maps since these are RAM tuned. It's good practice to save your maps frequently and then just download them when you are done. This way if you loose connection or you turn the car off accidentally you don't loose your work. All other maps are real time permanent.

I've tuned hundreds of Hydras and have never run across these issues until I tried to use a USB adaptor that just didn't work when I damaged mine. This is why we recommend against them. I tuned for 8 hours this week and did not have one connection issue, crash or anything of that nature and this varied from Hydra 2.0 boxes to 2.5. I believe you are having these issues as I know of one other who has the same issues but I tested the box in my personal car, making mass edits and couldn't get the Hydra to crash or do anything abnormal.

I've probably tuned over 300 Hydra cars at this point and it's does exactly what you tell it to. Just like any computer the tune is only as good as the tuner. If many of our customers had your problems and they had these experiences with me tuning their car, Element Tuning would have been out of business years ago.

The Hydra isn't perfect but there isn't a system that I have run across for less than $4k that has this level of user control and performance.

Just my 2 cents.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning
The Hydra isn't perfect but there isn't a system that I have run across for less than $4k that has this level of user control and performance.
Try the AEM system some time, the hardware and the software is fantastic.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:06 PM   #8
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Hmmm very curious I love the Hydra and everything about it. In fact I have switched at least 4 cars over from UTEC. First the hydra has NEVER crashed on me and our car is running 500+ HP.

I don't know where you are coming up with these problems***8230;. The Hydra has been nothing short of amazing ever since we installed it on the car. We have had major lines pop off the car and it was still able to drive. Driving down the road the boost pipe popped completely off of the throttle body and the car still ran. The vacuum lines popped off and melted to the manifold AND the car still ran. The boost line popped off of the Hydra and the car drove all the way home (150 miles) with just a little bit of smoke.

As far as the auto tune goes it is the most amazing feature of this ECU. We did a complete motor swap to an 04 WRX complete with the AVCS and 2.5L...Once everything was installed, all we had to do was plug it into the ECU and the car ran perfect. We have been running the car with a motor swap and ONLY an auto tune for four months no and no problems. Maybe if you have someone tuning the ECU that knew what they were doing you wouldn't have problems like this. My suggestion would be to either go to an authorized tuner or contact Phil***8230; he is a miracle worker!

When we originally bought the Hydra I was pissed. It was more than double the price of the UTEC, but now after everything the car has been through the hydra has saved our ass. The hydra is worth ever penny***8230; and coming from a girlfriend that is some good advertisement!!
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:09 PM   #9
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The hydra is like every other system, if you have a tuner that knows what he is doing you car will be tuned to its full potential. If you have some Podunk shop install a standalone ECU that doesn't know what they are doing, your car is going to run like ****. That just how it goes, You get what you pay for!
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
Try the AEM system some time, the hardware and the software is fantastic.
I have used ecus and software for UTEC, Cobb Access Port, Enginuity, Ecutek, Link, Haltech, AEM, Autronic, Motec, and Hydra. They all have their pros and cons but all have certain software features that are great and those that are terrible. Motec and Hydra stand above the rest on features and user control for the various sensors used and resolution for tuning. Most Hydra customers don't need the type of telemetry available to Motec users so Hydra customers can save a lot of money going this route.

Let's face it, those with Element Hydras are typically much happier than a Hydra purchased through another source and the same goes with any stand-alone. It's only going to be as good as the mapping contained within.
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-coast-punk View Post
5) Lack of ability to appropriately deal with injector response. The box has just 4 options to choose for injector response. If you have say... a 3.2 ohm injector you are ****ed. Because the only options you have in that range is 2.5 or 4. Expect the car to always idle like ass with ****ty throttle response. The way they deal with dead time and response also sucks balls (oh wait, it doesn't deal with this).
6) The throttle tip in mapping is a joke. I've NEVER driven a Hydra car that has "great" throttle response. I have tried for thousands of miles of road tuning to get my RS to respond the way it should to no avail. It has a pretty stock STi engine. Injectors aren't huge (and were actually recomended by the developer because they worked well with the unit). Turbo is a custom unit about the size of a 20g. It still doesn't have the throttle response of a stock STi. Anybody who has driven a stock vs. correctly tuned STi knows there is much to be desired even in the stock throttle response.
7) Things that even really ****ty systems like the e-manage have (the ability to manually input a percentage change to a section of a map for instance) the Hydra lacks. Even if you manage to get past all of the other glaring faults... it's just a pain in the ass to tune them because the interface is so kludgy (no ability to select cells with the mouse? Are you god damn serious?).
8) The fact I am locked out of control over inputs/outputs or how the aux. maps behave. Screw that. It's nonsense that I have to mail a unit in with a few days of down time to change how the inputs/outputs behave. Changing heads to ones with a different cam/crank sensor? Sorry, you have to mail that in.
9) The fact that I have to pay for bloody software/firmware updates just to address glaring issues in the old software/firmware. Half of the glaring issues aren't even addressed.
10) Maps are randomly password protected. If you try going from one car to another and they different password protection you are totally bent over and reamed by the software. Getting locked out of maps you were just working on is no fun. There is nothing like a "key ring" so that you can 100% reliably move from one car to another without dealing with some password issue. The only way I have found around this is to call Phil and have him send completely unlocked maps for both vehicles.
I totally agree with all of these. I have never seen many connecting issues but the rest is spot on. I have tuned hydra's and they work fairly well. The auto-tune works well when the map is very close. If it is not close it will not tune it easily and you will endo up with holes. But every auto-tune on any EM I have used is just like this. Personally I like to tune it myself and then enable closed-loop.

For people that don't tune there own cars the hydra is a good choice but if you want to tune it and adjust everything to make the car run like factory you will have the same problems I have with it. You are not allowed to control everything. The maps are locked or don't exist. Why? I bought a standalone to have a standalone. I accept the risks and know what I'm doing. This is very unexceotable. And paying for everything seperate sucks. Also being able to only use a small number of approved components in your car sucks. The hydra is not for the custom user. You don't have the ability to do what you want. But for the plug and play user that has the same setup as everyone else the hydra works well.

All these reasons add up to why I bought the AEM EMS and I am much happier with it then I would have been with the hydra.
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Old 08-19-2007, 02:23 AM   #12
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I've tuned with UTEC, Stock Reflash, and Hydra on Subies. Hydra is by far the most sophisticated and the only thing I'd trust a high HP car to.

Software stability is better than any Microsoft product. It's crashed on me, maybe 3 times in 3 years. I don't consider that unstable.USB connectivity is tricky no matter what. If you can go straight serial that's much better, but not realistic on a modern laptop.

1-3 are not Hydra or Nemesis problems. You need a new lap top and be very careful in choosing a USB connector if that is in use. I have used the Radio Shack one and one based on the Prolific chip set. Both work well. Cheapo ones do not, you can read about USB problems all over the net.

5-7 are pure tuning issues. Somehow several hundred users with a huge variety of set ups have been able to deal with them. Injector response is just longer PW in the fuel map, what's the deal, not that hard to tune. Throttle response is 10 times better than the stock ECU. I don't know what more you want. The main issue with throttle response isn't EM at all it's low compression ratio. I agree it would be nice to be able to select cells with a mouse, however I find it difficult to use one inside the car. The arrow keys work fine. (Good God consider UTEC, now that interface is a PIA) (Have you tuned an aftermarket MAF with Enginity, that's a pain in the butt and lots of valuable time wasted)

8-10: I don't know what to tell you. There are lot of idiots out there that will just download a map and go drive. Passwords are a safety feature. I've never known Phil to exclude an experienced tuner from their password.

Tuning a Hydra is not for the newbie. It's a stand alone management system. Without a good base map from Phil it would be hell to figure out all of the correction maps.

Anyone who needs help tuning there idle, PM me I'm happy to help. I have Cosworth cams and 820 CC injectors and a light flywheel and I idle at 900 RPM. Can't do that on any other EMS I know of for the Subaru.

I love my Element Hydra and it's like #4 and came with the 2.12 software.
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Old 08-19-2007, 03:25 AM   #13
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I've never once had a connection issue or had the software crash on 3 different laptops i've used on my car.

Seems like a user error with most of the issues, and after looking at your name it did look a little familiar.... pulled up an old thread on i-club where you bashed a shop and it turns out your car isn't put together too well...

(what they had to say about the car)
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=35
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Old 08-19-2007, 02:09 PM   #14
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What a retarded thread.

Next time give your thread a title of "Things I am having massive trouble with", go breathe in a bag for 5 minutes, then compose a post with your thoughts and concerns and you won't look like the moron you do right now.
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Old 08-19-2007, 05:39 PM   #15
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Critiquing hydra on NASIOC is about as welcome as critiquing W. Bush in Texas…save your breath.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-coast-punk View Post
Disclaimer: I am no novice to the Hydra system. I have the first version 2.5 box that was delivered to a customer in the US. We average 5-10 cars a week coming through our shop for Dyno tuning. We have NEVER had A SINGLE engine we tuned pop on the dyno or off that wasn't due to some other mechanical failure (someone else put the engine together and it spun a bearing after it comes off the dyno, oil starvation, etc). I'd like to think I know a few things about engine management. Oh yeah, I have both the home and cell numbers for the US developer stored in my phone. Hell, I even know where he lives. No, the US developer is not Phil. No I will not give out his info.
Sorry to hurt your ego, but I think it's pretty well known who the US "developer" of the Hydra is. I've spoken to him on the phone no less than 4 times in the last year.

Quote:
Things that I REALLY HATE about the Hydra:

1) The software is EXTREMELY unstable. 20-30 crashes during a dyno session is very normal. It usually causes the serial interface in the laptop to lock open as well requiring a restart of the laptop. We have tried many different laptops with every serial adaper under the sun with no luck.
And how many times did you try a laptop with a serial port?

And how many times did you try one of THESE, found by doing a simple search for 'serial' at the hydraems.com forums:

http://www.hydraems.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=350

Here's your whole fricking problem right here, which was found with a search for 'serial' and also works with a search for 'crash':

http://www.hydraems.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=341

Quote:
2) Did I mention unstable? We found a glitch that rears its ugly head every so often. During a tuning session it's not uncommon to have a set of maps revert back to what they were like 4 pulls/changes prior. Can be nice and dangerous if 4 pulls prior was very lean. Doesn't happen often. But it does happen.
See above.

Quote:
3) Something causes the maps to get corrupted in the units every so often if you are running in closed loop mode. I've seen two cars that simply would not start until a laptop was hooked up and had maps re-uploaded.
See above.

Quote:
4) The "autotune" feature sucks balls.
That's your opinion and you're free to share it.

Worked great for me.

Quote:
5) Lack of ability to appropriately deal with injector response. The box has just 4 options to choose for injector response. If you have say... a 3.2 ohm injector you are ****ed. Because the only options you have in that range is 2.5 or 4. Expect the car to always idle like ass with ****ty throttle response. The way they deal with dead time and response also sucks balls (oh wait, it doesn't deal with this).
I can't comment on this.

Quote:
6) The throttle tip in mapping is a joke. I've NEVER driven a Hydra car that has "great" throttle response. I have tried for thousands of miles of road tuning to get my RS to respond the way it should to no avail. It has a pretty stock STi engine. Injectors aren't huge (and were actually recomended by the developer because they worked well with the unit). Turbo is a custom unit about the size of a 20g. It still doesn't have the throttle response of a stock STi. Anybody who has driven a stock vs. correctly tuned STi knows there is much to be desired even in the stock throttle response.
My throttle response is awesome. I have a 2.1 box.

Throttle response on a 2004 STI with Hydra 2.5 box was awesome as well. GT35R.

Quote:
7) Things that even really ****ty systems like the e-manage have (the ability to manually input a percentage change to a section of a map for instance) the Hydra lacks. Even if you manage to get past all of the other glaring faults... it's just a pain in the ass to tune them because the interface is so kludgy (no ability to select cells with the mouse? Are you god damn serious?).
There's plenty in the Hydra software that needs improvement. Myself and others have been very vocal about it in the last 2 years (at hydraems.com)

Quote:
8) The fact I am locked out of control over inputs/outputs or how the aux. maps behave. Screw that. It's nonsense that I have to mail a unit in with a few days of down time to change how the inputs/outputs behave. Changing heads to ones with a different cam/crank sensor? Sorry, you have to mail that in.
Um... what?

I was locked out of various things when I got my unit. I asked for it all to be unlocked. I was sent the proper code to unlock all of the features and maps. I never sent my unit ANYWHERE.

If you have Hydra customers scheduled, why are you not requesting their serial number in order to contact Phil beforehand (for the unlock code). That's something a professional tuner would do.

At any rate, you really made yourself look like an idiot here. If I was a customer of yours seeing this thread and if I was charged for the time it took you to phuk around with your broken-ass serial setup that you were too "smart" to ever figure out and fix, I would be expecting money back right about now.

You made about 3 valid complaints out of 10. That's deep deep deep into "F" as a grade. The other 7 items are YOUR problems, not the Hydras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gold rush
Critiquing hydra on NASIOC is about as welcome as critiquing W. Bush in Texas***8230;save your breath.
On the contrary, if your head isn't up your ass, criticism is very welcome. There's a good handful of stuff the Hydra doesn't do perfectly well. The manual, for one, sucks rocks.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
Sorry to hurt your ego, but I think it's pretty well known who the US "developer" of the Hydra is. I've spoken to him on the phone no less than 4 times in the last year.
haha serious, very well known who he is. hell i've been to his house and met with him a few times, I guess that makes me a "hydra guru"
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:50 AM   #18
keaniegenie
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I'm not a tuner, but I will say this.

My Hydra never switches to old fuel and spark maps on it's own. The throttle response feels like stock. The idle on my car is like stock.

And for the guy who said "critiquing Hydra's on NASIOC is like critiquing George W. in Texas", why do you think that is? This is the largest Impreza owners forum in the world.

After all, this website isn't restricted to only users in Texas.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:16 AM   #19
Innovative Tuning
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I won't speak to the other issues, but I've never had a connection or crashing issue with the Hydra software. I have two tuning laptops, one of which has a real serial port. I use that one with Hydra, AEM EMS, Autronic, and others that use serial communication. Using USB to serial converters works with some apps (on some converters) but not others. Use a computer with a real serial port and you won't have these problems.

-Mike
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:27 AM   #20
x99percent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie View Post
The throttle response feels like stock.
This is most definitely NOT true on the DBW cars.

The accelerator pedal -> throttle position relationship on a Hydra is much more linear that on the stock ECU. On the stock ECU, a little pedal = a lot of throttle movement, and that makes the car feel a lot more "peppy".

You get used to it, though.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:00 PM   #21
sean18337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x99percent View Post
This is most definitely NOT true on the DBW cars.

The accelerator pedal -> throttle position relationship on a Hydra is much more linear that on the stock ECU. On the stock ECU, a little pedal = a lot of throttle movement, and that makes the car feel a lot more "peppy".

You get used to it, though.
I feel that the Hydra has much better throttle response then the stock ECU.. The turbo spools much quicker and the car is a lot more fun to drive. The base map I received from Phil was great. I basically downloaded the map, setup Auto-tune on my 2 hour ride home and when I arrived the car was almost perfect. A few dips in the boost columns but the interpolation fixed these issues. I bought a $35 shipped PCMCIA to serial port adapter from newegg.com and it works GREAT!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839328003&Tpk=39-328-003

This is my first standalone coming from systems that I tune from the Honda/Acura markets
I'm very happy with the results and I'm still learning new features this syatem has to offer every day.
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:33 PM   #22
gold rush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie View Post
I'm not a tuner, but I will say this.

My Hydra never switches to old fuel and spark maps on it's own. The throttle response feels like stock. The idle on my car is like stock.

And for the guy who said "critiquing Hydra's on NASIOC is like critiquing George W. in Texas", why do you think that is? This is the largest Impreza owners forum in the world.

After all, this website isn't restricted to only users in Texas.
I agree with you that the Hydra and especially Element must do a great job to have so many happy customers on NASIOC, and in NA (especially the states) there is such great support, plus its so well priced that in most cases Hydra is the best bet for Subaru standalone EM. With that said, Hydra is what it is, and because it is so popular over here we all assume its the best and dont want to hear otherwise eventhough it likly isnt the be all end all, or you would see big time race teams using it.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:52 PM   #23
no-coast-punk
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So I guess my (Mercedes Benz/ASE) master tech certified hillbilly ass doesn't know what I'm doing. Guess I'll have to go back to playing with all of those other 8, 9, 10 and 11 second cars (many of them Subies) that have rolled out of here that run beautifully not running the Hydra.

As for the crashing issue. I don't know what to say. I have literally tried a half dozen different laptops with a half dozen different serial adapters that work flawlessly with EVERY other standalone out there. About two years ago I even went as far as to have HydraEMS mail me the exact adapter they use because I assumed it was something I was doing wrong. I even sent my box back in and paid to have a full bench burn in test performed and nothing was wrong with it.

I don't know, maybe it's just a Colorado thing because I have talked to MANY other people in this state and have heard lots of stability complaints.

"...We have had the map reverted back to an older map, but that was only after we had made about 5 or 6 pulls without storing the changes. Phil told us that would happen, it was an easy fix of just storing the map. You also have to download the map to the ecu, then re upload it to the laptop just to make sure the changes took..."
-Another Colorado Hydra victim posting on a local forum.

I believe it's a piece of ****. I was just throwing that out there because I know I'm not the only one that thinks this. Obviously many others agree with me because I can count the number of Subies running that POS in the state of Colorado on one hand (that includes mine). None of them are very happy with it. We're in the middle of converting a 40R STi from a Hydra to an Autronic. Same story with my RS.

As for dealing with un-lock codes and the like. I think it's a perfectly valid complaint. I've never had an issue getting one from Phil (like I said in the OP, he's a nice guy and I have nothing bad to say about him). But why should I have to in the first place? As for planning ahead with customers... I have never sold or installed a Hydra. I won't do that dis-service to my customers.

The only Hydra cars we've had come through here are from other shops that have pissed off customers badly enough to have cars shipped here halfway through the build. It's always a last minute scramble to run around dig up what the car needs and un-lock codes are just one more headache.

It pisses me off that I have to jump through these hoops and deal with this nonsense when there are comparably priced systems out there that work WAY better that don't involve so many bloody headaches.

Last edited by no-coast-punk; 08-20-2007 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 08-20-2007, 06:29 PM   #24
rjrutzky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-coast-punk View Post
(Mercedes Benz/ASE) master tech
[hypnotised follower]I believe everything you say now. MB/ASE super-knowledge cannot be denied. I will do anything you say.[hypnotised follower]

Add me to one never having a problem (not once) with crashing and I have a cheapo serial adapter. The maps, when loaded, are stable as can be. Sometimes it takes a couple times to actually connect, but once it connects, it's all good for the entire session. That's just the nature of the serial/usb beast. I had those same problems with my UTEC.

To complain about some things in the Hydra is one thing, but to call it a piece of sh** is way out of line. I find it impossible to believe that all of Colorado, #1 gets tuned by you and #2 has a Hydra and is dissatisfied with it, unless you look at the tuner being the common denominator and maybe that's where the problem lies.
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:56 PM   #25
no-coast-punk
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There are 4 AWD dyno's here in the state. We do about 40***37; of Subies in the state. The other Dyno Dynamics does about 40% as well (they are also 120 miles away and in all reality a totally different market). He won't touch Hydra cars either. The Dynojet here does about 15% of the Subies... the Mustang here does about 5% of them.

We tuned EVERY Subaru that ran in the Pikes Peak hill climb last year. We tuned all of the fast guys this year (including the 4wd time attack winner). Every car from Colorado competing in Rally America has been tuned by us as well.

So to answer you: You are correct. Not every Subaru in the state has been tuned by us.
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