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Old 09-16-2007, 09:29 PM   #1
jays05
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Default Built motor failure: P0345 and no compression ==> busted cam! now with pics

Well, I was out driving today and the car felt like a cylinder dropped out or like it was running really rich. It died as I was pulling off the road into a parking lot. I had my laptop and an obd2 scanner with me so I read the code... P0345.

P0345: Camshaft Position Sensor A - Bank 2 Circuit Malfunction

I had just washed the car, so I hoped for the best that something had just gotten wet... I cleared the CEL and tried starting it, but it sounds like there is no compression. Sounds exactly like when you have the spark plugs out and are doing a compression test. So I think it's safe to assume that something in the heads let go and the valves are stuck open

I had the car towed back to the shop that built my motor. I had left my beater car in the parking lot there so I drove that home.

Any guesses as to what happened? I am guessing that the timing belt skipped a tooth, an idler failed, a cam gear broke, or something along those lines. I was running 27psi on 93+meth at the time, and had done a 3rd gear pull about a minute before the car died.

And an abreviated modlist:
cp 100mm pistons, pauter rods
stock crank, oem bearings, cosworth oil pump
ported heads, supertech valvetrain, oversize SS valves, cosworth 278/274 avcs cams
pe timing belt, new tensioner, cosworth timing belt guide
~3800 miles

see below for update and pics
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Last edited by jays05; 09-26-2007 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:01 PM   #2
mick_the_ginge
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Quote:
Any guesses as to what happened? I am guessing that the timing belt skipped a tooth, an idler failed, a cam gear broke, or something along those lines.
I would bet a timing belt issue. Was the idler reused or replaced?
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:06 PM   #3
jays05
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The idlers were reused. All seemed fine. The car has 44k original miles.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:10 PM   #4
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Yea timing accident..

I had this happen at a gas station once.. I shut the car off and got gas... when I restarted it it started and died. Popped 2-3 codes, as well as the Tbelt and valves..
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:54 PM   #5
jays05
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I was driving at ~3000rpm when it happened. Right before that about a mile down the road I did a sick 3rd gear pull under a bridge and everything was great.. After that I was just cruising when it let go
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
I had left my beater car in the parking lot there so I drove that home.
hmmm.. was that a premonition or what?

very sad to hear of your issue, jay.

even though i'm a cheap bastard, if i ever rebuild my engine it is going to have one new t-belt tensioner. i've heard too much baloney ensue from reusing them to take the chance.

ken
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:36 PM   #7
jays05
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Actually I was leaving my beater at the shop because we were gonna blow it up on the dyno with NAWZ

I talked with somebody at the shop this morning and they expect to be able to get the timing belt cover off today.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:56 AM   #8
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damn jay you can has no lag.

let us know what happened with PICS!
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:25 PM   #9
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updates?
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Old 09-18-2007, 01:26 PM   #10
jays05
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update: no word from the shop yet. And I hate driving my beater car.

I have datalogs from one hour before it happened and all looked good. Although I really doubt that I could have done anything with the tune to cause this. I normally always datalogged, but I was driving from the carwash back to home so I wasn't logging. I logged on the way there.

It's finally setting in that my motor let go... and I am really now.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:18 PM   #11
Badazzcr
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this actually is pretty common, tell the shop to unplug the sensors and blow the water out of the connector/sensors. The cam sensors are not sealed and can get water inside them causing it to read incorrectly.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:22 PM   #12
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Wow, I will paypal you $5 if that fixes it.

But I am concerned about how the car sounded when cranking it over.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:13 PM   #13
Shawn96VR-4
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*hopes for good news*
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badazzcr View Post
this actually is pretty common, tell the shop to unplug the sensors and blow the water out of the connector/sensors. The cam sensors are not sealed and can get water inside them causing it to read incorrectly.
+++++++111111
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:32 PM   #15
jays05
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Well, the timing belt didn't skip, and there wasn't any water in the cam position sensor connectors.

Compression and leakdown test next...

And I hate driving my beater car.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:39 PM   #16
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^ tell me about it.. I`am in a 95 oldsmobile!

Good luck let us know what happens when you get those numbers!!
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:11 AM   #17
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Wow sorry to hear Jay. Good luck with it.

Regards,

Ron
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:32 AM   #18
ride5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Well, the timing belt didn't skip, and there wasn't any water in the cam position sensor connectors.
hmmmm... that would have been my from the hip diagnosis.

strange that it sounded like there was no compression... i remember that sound distinctly when it came from my wife's 1st gen eagle talon 4g63 after the balance shaft belt disintegrated and threw itself into the main timing belt causing it to skip about 10 teeth.
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:01 AM   #19
jays05
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Yeah, I've compression tested the motor a few times recently, and I've also primed the motor after an oil change (just a couple days before this all happened) and I know the difference in how it sounds.

I'm already wishing I never posted about this though. "Word on the street" is that my crappy tune blew it up. If a piston or valve melted, or it spun a rod bearing, yeah, I probably did it. I can't see any of those problems throwing a cam position sensor CEL.

And regarding the CEL... Bank 2 is the passenger side right?
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Yeah, I've compression tested the motor a few times recently, and I've also primed the motor after an oil change (just a couple days before this all happened) and I know the difference in how it sounds.

I'm already wishing I never posted about this though. "Word on the street" is that my crappy tune blew it up. If a piston or valve melted, or it spun a rod bearing, yeah, I probably did it. I can't see any of those problems throwing a cam position sensor CEL.

And regarding the CEL... Bank 2 is the passenger side right?
you would really have to be trying to melt a piston. OR your water/meth failed on that pull.

either way, I wish you luck. I think you'll pull off the valve cover/head and you'll find the culprit.
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:52 PM   #21
jays05
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Cylinder 1
115 psi 5% leak down

Cylinder2
0 psi 80% leak down

Cylinder 3
110 psi 30% leak down

Cylinder 4
25 psi 45% leak down

They said that one cyl was leaking through the intake, and two cylinders through the bottom end.

If one cyl wasn't leaking through the intake, and if it hadn't thrown the P0345 CEL, I would believe that it was a fueling issue due to massive det. But right now I am not sure what to do
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:10 PM   #22
mick_the_ginge
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I would bet you have bent valves, hence the 0psi which was produced by a slipped timing belt.
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:13 PM   #23
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with 0 compression and that much leakdown on cyl 2, that would hint toward a valve issue no?
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:44 PM   #24
jays05
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The timing belt didn't slip. I am betting the pistons hit the valves. I had upped the AVCS from 7.5 to 10 about a week earlier and did maybe 100 miles like that, including two passes at the dragstrip and some street action the night before.

This post from my original build thread is coming back to haunt me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
They are the Cosworth 278/274 AVCS cams that bboy analyzed and made a great thread about(I read it at least 20 times). 10.9mm lift on the intake cams and 10.28mm on the exhaust cams. This is something I was really concerned about. My engine builder didn't check for piston/valve interference at full avcs advance. So, on the first day I got the motor back, I put 20 in the avcs map (10 degrees @ cam) and it didn't grenade I don't think I will even try going higher than that, although I have talked to somebody with the same pistons and cams who is running full avcs advance. I have read that these cams do not need a lot of avcs advance.
The shop thinks it was a fueling issue that led to massive det. I want to see the plugs up close... they were NGK coppers with maybe 1000 miles on them, if that... if there was massive det enough to completely destroy CP pistons, some remnants of the pistons should be on the plugs.
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:51 PM   #25
mick_the_ginge
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Ok, I still think valves only issue rather than det for something like this but I am looking forward to the real story and pictures

CP's IMO are pretty much indestructable, do you remember the sponaugle thread where one of his valves broke off into the cylinders?? The CP's bounced that thing around during the dyno pull and still made 400 WHP.

That would have to be MASSIVE det and heat to burn up a CP.
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