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Old 03-21-2009, 09:38 PM   #1
iluvdrt
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Default need help on auto-x sts rules please

I need a little help and clarifaction on some rules for STS if you may.
I drive a 98 LegacyGT wagon automatic. I am currently racing in STS in my local SCCA chapter (eastern NC), but I am not sure if I should be. I dont know which class I should be in, and I am planning some "changes very soon that I dont want to put me into another class (If this is where I belong to begin with).

That being said here is my long post. Is STS where I belong, and will my new mods put me into another class?

My mods are as follows.
stock motor minus new twe springs and retainers in heads. OEM everything else during rebuild.
drop in filter
stock exhaust manifold with 2.25" cat back straight pipe
04 STi struts and springs
whiteline rear adj lateral links
subaru 4 pot front brakes
subaru 2 pot rear brakes
goodrige ss brake lines
06 wrx tr rear backing plates (to accomodate rear brakes)
OEM size wheels with higher backspacing to fit over brakes
225/50/16 BFG G force AS tires W rated
BM trans cooler

here is what I am doing.
5 spd conversion from 98 lego GT sedan/wagon
lighter pullies
intake
borla header/full exhaust (2.25" straight pipe with high flow cat)
relocate battery to rear
new front seats (STi)
F+R sways with links
possibly coilovers with adj top mounts
rear strut bar
delta 272 cams (maybe*edit just checked again, not legal/Darn)
AFC controller/tune


I have read the rules for STS and doesnt say anything about changing the calipers. I am worried they put me into another class although no one has said anything I want to be honest. Plus if they do, Then I will def add a turbo upgrade onto that list as well.

I know the trans shouldnt change anything because my year/model car was offered with a 5spd.

I am not sure about the cams/edit: nevermind about cams, not legal.

the controller should be OK

coilovers and adj topmounts I am not sure about

exhaust should be good

everything should be OK.

If someone could help me out here it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
BTW this is all local, maybe 1 or 2 natl events just for fun.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:01 PM   #2
KC
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They changed the name of STS to ST this year... with that in mind, *right now* you look to be good for ST.

The tranny swap is going to take you out also and put you in FSP I believe.
Cams will boot you to SM (I don't think cam swaps are legal in SP)

--KC
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:16 PM   #3
iluvdrt
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But the trans was OEM equipment for the 98 legacy GT wagon. I thought as long as it was oem for year/make car it was a legit upgrade? Can somone clairify?

I figured the cams would kill me which is why I wont do them now.

I really like ST (thanks for the update) because it is mostly NA cars with smaller engines. It keeps things competitive with my wagon as faras power goes.

If I cant do the 5 spd, than what about upgrading the torque converter and valve body in the auto? The factory 4eat sucks, but I love the platform.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:26 PM   #4
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i'm not too up to date on st rules, but last time i checked upgrading the brakes (calipers) bumped you to stx
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvdrt View Post
stock motor minus new twe springs and retainers in heads. OEM everything else during rebuild
wouldn't the springs kick him into prep or mod?
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:05 PM   #6
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yep, the springs and retainers punt him straight to SM, Prepared, or Mod if they aren't the same length, rate, and installed height as stock. No ST, no SP. Of course, with stock cams, the heftier springs aren't really gaining much UNLESS the valves float at a fairly low RPM. Other then the valve springs/retainers, the rest of the mods put him in STX (brakes).

The trans swap is legal, provided you do a complete trim swap to a MT Legacy GT. A lot of manufacturers change stuff with the brakes, springs and cooling system between AT and MT equipped cars. In ST, the springs don't matter, in STX the brakes don't matter. You'll want to make sure you're covering all the bases when it comes to a package swap, but yes, it can be done legally. Just be aware you might have to change a bit more then just the gearbox.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:34 PM   #7
iluvdrt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo-x View Post
yep, the springs and retainers punt him straight to SM, Prepared, or Mod if they aren't the same length, rate, and installed height as stock. No ST, no SP. Of course, with stock cams, the heftier springs aren't really gaining much UNLESS the valves float at a fairly low RPM. Other then the valve springs/retainers, the rest of the mods put him in STX (brakes).

The trans swap is legal, provided you do a complete trim swap to a MT Legacy GT. A lot of manufacturers change stuff with the brakes, springs and cooling system between AT and MT equipped cars. In ST, the springs don't matter, in STX the brakes don't matter. You'll want to make sure you're covering all the bases when it comes to a package swap, but yes, it can be done legally. Just be aware you might have to change a bit more then just the gearbox.
Springs and retainers are not upgrades, just replaced. They were installed by NAPA machine shop during a routine HG job (during the rebuild). I have the reciepts showing this (not that anyone would be able to tell). Heads were rebuilt to OE specs.

"heads disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled with new valve guides, seals, seats, TWE springs and retainers installed to OEM specs"

I guess that means stock.

Is it STX because of the AWD? I wonder why no one said anything for almost a year?
There was also a 2.5RS running around in STS, not STX in my chapter. I think my chapter either doesnt care, or because of the small displacement of the 2.5NA didnt care to bump me up and I got a lucky break. IDK.

Last edited by iluvdrt; 03-21-2009 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:00 AM   #8
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The brakes bump you to STX from ST. If you don't swap over the rest of the MT trim package (minus things that are allowable to change under other rules) you will be in SP.

Since the valve springs and retainers are OEM replacements, they should be legal in any class.

Your car would be in ST without the brakes as long as the cat is OEM and in the OEM location (+/- 6 inches). I think it's only STX and STU where it's legal to change the cat to a high flow.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:21 AM   #9
iluvdrt
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OK. The trans swap wont be that hard to do since the 96-99 legos are the same pretty much as far as driveline is concerned. I wont be doing the harness or MT ecu, but that wouldnt yield any gains if I did so it is pointless, and there no advantages otherwise.

I just do this for fun anyways. I just dont want to beat someone who is more serious about it and take something away from them if I am in the wrong class to begin with. Besides, I will still be in the beginner legue since I didnt get to compete a year due to military obligations.

Beginner class is fun because you all compete aginst not only your class (sts, stx, whatever), but you are also competing aginst the other beginners regardless of what they drive. I like it.

I appreciate the help guys.
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #10
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as long as the people you run with locally are aware of what you have and don't care, it doesn't matter.

P.S. "springs and retainers to OEM specs" are not the same as factory allowed replacment parts
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kursplat View Post
as long as the people you run with locally are aware of what you have and don't care, it doesn't matter.

P.S. "springs and retainers to OEM specs" are not the same as factory allowed replacment parts

I dont think they care. It is pretty much like the same 50 people every race, and who every shows up every now and then.

I will have to dig out the reciepts I guess a nd take a better look if it isnt the same thing.
Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvdrt View Post
I dont think they care. It is pretty much like the same 50 people every race, and who every shows up every now and then.

I will have to dig out the reciepts I guess a nd take a better look if it isnt the same thing.
Thanks for the help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvdrt
BTW this is all local, maybe 1 or 2 natl events just for fun.
It matters once you step into the national stage.

Just last year at the national championships, a long time high profile competitor was protested for something related to his engine. While they were tearing it down, the protested parts were found to be legal, but they found something else in the engine at the same time that was illegal. Non-stock shims that were put there by his builder. Since it wasn't an approved method of bringing the valves up to spec, this driver was DSQed.

Same can go with your non-OEM or non-OEM spec parts. I'm not doing this to scare you. If you decide in a couple years to step up and run more national events, and actually get good, are you really going to remember that you have these non-stock parts in your car (should you even be in a class that cares about such things)? Odds are good that you won't. I know I wouldn't. Then, in a protest, you lose your runs?

Do it right the 1st time, this way there are no headaches down the road.

--kC
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
It matters once you step into the national stage.

Just last year at the national championships, a long time high profile competitor was protested for something related to his engine. While they were tearing it down, the protested parts were found to be legal, but they found something else in the engine at the same time that was illegal. Non-stock shims that were put there by his builder. Since it wasn't an approved method of bringing the valves up to spec, this driver was DSQed.
FYI Andy wasn't protested, the national staff decided to random inspections on the top five cars from many of the large classes (STS2, CSP etc). STS2 had to pull an axle, I forgot what they did to CSP and STS had to pull their valve covers. The resulting inspection is was what prompted the DSQ.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
The brakes bump you to STX from ST. If you don't swap over the rest of the MT trim package (minus things that are allowable to change under other rules) you will be in SP.

Since the valve springs and retainers are OEM replacements, they should be legal in any class.

Your car would be in ST without the brakes as long as the cat is OEM and in the OEM location (+/- 6 inches). I think it's only STX and STU where it's legal to change the cat to a high flow.
He is spot on here, except ST can now run hi-flow cats as long as they are the same quantity as stock and within 6 inches of the factory cats.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Mere View Post
FYI Andy wasn't protested, the national staff decided to random inspections on the top five cars from many of the large classes (STS2, CSP etc). STS2 had to pull an axle, I forgot what they did to CSP and STS had to pull their valve covers. The resulting inspection is was what prompted the DSQ.
Ahh. I thought there was a protest involved. Thanks for clearing that up. (And I left names out of it on purpose... )

--kC
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:35 PM   #16
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except ST can now run hi-flow cats as long as they are the same quantity as stock and within 6 inches of the factory cats.
NO!!!!!
in ST, and STS, the cat must be in the same location as stock. STX and STU it may be moved up to 6"
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:53 PM   #17
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NO!!!!!
in ST, and STS, the cat must be in the same location as stock. STX and STU it may be moved up to 6"
I stand corrected
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:55 PM   #18
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NO!!!!!
in ST, and STS, the cat must be in the same location as stock. STX and STU it may be moved up to 6"
You can move the new cat where the new cat all the way up to 6" of the exit of the stock cat. Not the same as 6".

If you have a 20" cat, and a 20" replacement cat, you can hypothetically move the center point of the new cat 26" up or down stream.

--kC
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:14 PM   #19
iluvdrt
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Wow all these crazy rules makes me just want to buy a stock car and throw a set of good tires on it and call it a day LOL.

I think once I am good enough and financially sound enough to make the trip my car will probably in a much faster bracket anyways where it is pretty much a gutted race car.
If not than it wll be stocker. I build the car to suit me, but if I can keep it in the same class with minor changes I will.

They sure are picky about some things arent they? valve shims, is just crazy. Who tears the motor down and pays for the labor/parts when they go that far. I imagine the owner does or he forfits.
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