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Old 03-22-2010, 07:02 PM   #1
mindchatter
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Default Rebuilding an EJ257 with forged - E85 ok?

Hey all. My '04 STi's motor recently popped, and I'm in the process of a rebuild. Going with forged pistons (likely CP's) but had a question on break-in.

I've been running E85 for the last 6 months or so, and read somewhere that because E85 burns cooler you can't break in a new engine with it, as the piston rings won't seat properly.

Anyone know if this is true? Secondly, does boring/honing the cylinders and putting in forged pistons require a break in period?

Basically, I'm wondering if I need to run the new pistons on 91 till they're broken in and then switch back to E85. Cost is an issue, unfortunately, and I'd really rather not get tuned two more times if I can avoid it.

Thanks for any help.....
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:41 PM   #2
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I have a friend who went thru two motors both died on break in using E85 and rottela for oil....btw they were built by a Subaru rally god... He built my motor too, and I have not had one problem. I used gasoline+valvoline 10w30 for 900 miles of break in... After that I switched to E85 + amsoil 5w40 been running strong for 12,000 miles. And it's abused heavily....
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:43 PM   #3
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I would. There is lots of debate on it, but the general thought is that you stand a greater risk on E85 of washing the walls.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
I have a friend who went thru two motors both died on break in using E85 and rottela for oil....btw they were built by a Subaru rally god... He built my motor too, and I have not had one problem. I used gasoline+valvoline 10w30 for 900 miles of break in... After that I switched to E85 + amsoil 5w40 been running strong for 12,000 miles. And it's abused heavily....
Blame the rotella again and I'll....
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:01 PM   #5
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1781008

don't do it! I went through hell.

Don't break in the car on E85 there is chance that you rings will not seat.

and rotella T is excellent
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:47 PM   #6
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Blame the rotella again and I'll....
Did you ever see the deep scratches on juks cylinder walls after that whole deal, maybe it was all the E85s fault for washing the rotella off but either way I will never combine E85 and rotella t or whatever he used ...Amsoil treats me well
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:35 PM   #7
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Had nothing but great luck with Rotella w/e85. The few UOA's looked good to boot.

Washing out the rings during break-in on e85 does seem to make sense though.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindchatter View Post
Hey all. My '04 STi's motor recently popped, and I'm in the process of a rebuild. Going with forged pistons (likely CP's) but had a question on break-in.

I've been running E85 for the last 6 months or so, and read somewhere that because E85 burns cooler you can't break in a new engine with it, as the piston rings won't seat properly.

Anyone know if this is true? Secondly, does boring/honing the cylinders and putting in forged pistons require a break in period?

Basically, I'm wondering if I need to run the new pistons on 91 till they're broken in and then switch back to E85. Cost is an issue, unfortunately, and I'd really rather not get tuned two more times if I can avoid it.

Thanks for any help.....
How does your tuner like to do it? My shop does a 'break in' tune that limits boost to wastegate pressure, then I come back after the break in period and get re-tuned for real...and when I get it re-tuned, I have them tune it on a couple gallons of 93, then after they finish the first map - fill up the tank with e85 and tune it again, doesn't take much time.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:09 PM   #9
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My tuner and engine builder are one and the same, but we haven't gotten that far into the conversation just yet, as he's away on business and I don't wanna be a hassle.

I've just read some scary tales about breaking in on E85, so thought I'd get the groups concensus.

Somewhat ironic timing - motor went after I filled the tank and three 5 gallon cans with E85 while en route to the gym. Like $60 worth of E85 & five minutes later < BOOM >. Life's a bitch sometimes, huh? Lol.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mindchatter View Post

Somewhat ironic timing - motor went after I filled the tank and three 5 gallon cans with E85 while en route to the gym. Like $60 worth of E85 & five minutes later < BOOM >. Life's a bitch sometimes, huh? Lol.
What

I pm u
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:21 PM   #11
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I had just filled the tank + bought an additional 15 gallons of E85 when the engine went. Just seemed like God was chuckling in my general direction, had nothing to do with the tune/fuel, etc.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:57 PM   #12
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This thread brings nightmarish flashbacks of maxed out credit cards...

You shouldn't have to pay for two tunes. He'll probably just put a break in tune on it, next time I do it, I'll do that part with gasoline. Once she's broke in go back to E85 and crank up the boost. Good luck.

FWIW it was recommended to me not to mix Rotella conventional with E85, but who knows. All I know is I'm going to do it as different as possible from the last two attempts

Last edited by Juks; 03-23-2010 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:26 AM   #13
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He's a really fair and good guy, honestly. I'm just trying to educate myself as much as possible along the way.

He just tuned me about 6 months ago for the E. If nothing else I'm proving a very loyal customer thus far.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:56 AM   #14
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Well, 3-400 miles into a "new" motor started up on E85....

runs fine..... no blowby or spun rods.... yet.....
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Did you ever see the deep scratches on juks cylinder walls after that whole deal, maybe it was all the E85s fault for washing the rotella off but either way I will never combine E85 and rotella t or whatever he used ...Amsoil treats me well
That was his car
Seems the rest are still running fine here
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:40 AM   #16
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Just don't be a pansy when breaking in your engine and E85 will be fine. Rings need boost to seal. If you have a good tune on E85 already then that's great.

Now remember that my car is not a daily driver but this is what I do as a break in. Warm car up, high idle for 20 mins, stop, flush and change oil. Onto the dyno for pulls under load at progressivly higher rpms at wastegate boost. Let off at end of rpm and let engine coast back down. Do this for about 25-50 miles on the dyno until I am doing runs under load to close to redline. I can tell when the rings seat as the amount of oil smoke out the back drops off under decel.

The key is boost and variable RPM's
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mick_the_ginge View Post
Just don't be a pansy when breaking in your engine and E85 will be fine. Rings need boost to seal. If you have a good tune on E85 already then that's great.

Now remember that my car is not a daily driver but this is what I do as a break in. Warm car up, high idle for 20 mins, stop, flush and change oil. Onto the dyno for pulls under load at progressivly higher rpms at wastegate boost. Let off at end of rpm and let engine coast back down. Do this for about 25-50 miles on the dyno until I am doing runs under load to close to redline. I can tell when the rings seat as the amount of oil smoke out the back drops off under decel.

The key is boost and variable RPM's
and heat....
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:47 PM   #18
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and heat....
Yep, maybe it's just the way I've tuned my car but my EGT's are no lower on E85 than they are on pump or race gas.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:58 PM   #19
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While my EGT probe is tapped into the downpipe (not ideal, I know) I saw temps go down nearly 200 degrees from 91 octane to E85. It surprised me, even though I was expecting to see some drop.

But yeah, my tune on E85 felt really good while the car was running. My tuner/builder has tuned lots of Subies on E, and built quote a few engines that are doing well, so I'm hopeful everything works out.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:47 AM   #20
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Just found this thread. I'll get you a break in map for pump gas so you can break it in that way. When trying to put a lot of miles on an engine in short amount of time it helps to run pump gas. Juan had a bunch of problems, but I'm not convinced E85 was the culprit. A local customer of mine broke his engine in on E85 recently and had absolutely no problems. Did you find someone to get the engine out of the car and to me, or are you going to have me do the whole thing?
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