Hybrid axles "The Missing Link"

suberdave · 09-01-2010, 12:25 AM

The Missing Link to the R180 install with R160 hubs...
So I needed to install an R180 diff with my 6 speed swap, but did not want to install the rear R180 rear hubs.

So I did some research and found that the inner cup of the R180 axle shaft could be joined to an R160 axle shaft with the aid of a custom CV race.

I did much research online and made many long distance phone calls and found a CV company that could make me the custom race that I needed.

Problem was that like many things in manufacturing, they would not make me just 2, I had to have 10 min made.

So if anyone else wants to do this same thing... PM me I have extras to sale...

left is 2005+ STI inner race center is custom STI / WRX Race Right is 2002 WRX inner race

This is how it works.

You must use 05+ STI inner shafts with 8 balls on the race and cage. the 04 and earlier have 6 balls and will not work with this custom race.

First take apart both shafts.

Remove the CV boot clamps. if you do this right you can reuse them.

Next remove the retaining ring holding the inner joint together.

Next the Snap ring at the end of the shaft.

and it is now apart...

Now put it back together using the WRX shaft, the custom race, and the STI inner joint.

And now you have a custom shaft to install your R180 diff in your Subaru using your stock hubs...

-=Suberdave=-

www.suberdave.com

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

minifreak · 09-01-2010, 01:25 AM

This would be a nice alternative to sourcing Spec B axles. If this was available a earlier I wouldn't have to buy a set of STi hubs just to run R180.

mowgli29 · 09-01-2010, 01:33 AM

GREAT post Suberdave! I've heard for wayyyyy too long now that "it just won't work," or "you have to get DSS hybrid axles."

Let me be the first to say, "THANK YOU!" for being such a pioneer. I'm certainly excited to put my set to good use, and I'd certainly think there are plenty of fellow members itching to do the same!

BTW, any idea where the best place to get boots would be? I actually went to most local places, as well as the dealership, and nobody had them. Certainly universal boots aren't my only option, are they? If so, know of any decent ones?

kpluiten · 09-01-2010, 02:53 AM

Sticky! Great work.

181stLeader · 09-01-2010, 03:04 AM

Nice work! too bad I just installed 5x114.3 hubs this past weekend

PM me pricing on the hybrid inner race. I may have somebody interested in this.

hybrid gti 2 · 09-01-2010, 04:21 PM

Oh nice. Thanx for posting that!

Sending pm

nxwrxfx · 10-15-2010, 04:42 PM

Awesome thread!
I agree this should be stickied!

PM'd as well!

fastwrx25 · 10-16-2010, 09:44 AM

much props for you to getting this done.

tpc0531 · 10-20-2010, 07:44 PM

Check your email, I'm interested is a set.

M4c0770 · 10-20-2010, 07:59 PM

Nice job... I might be interested. Got Pm!

rops:

MRF582 · 10-26-2010, 09:50 PM

Can you post a top down (lengthwise) view of the R180 and Hybrid R160/R180 driveshaft assemblies next to each other? The axle lengths according to technical documents disagree greatly but they don't take the inner and outer joints into consideration. Perhaps the fully assembled dimensions are close enough.

Thanks.

mowgli29 · 10-26-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRF582

Can you post a top down (lengthwise) view of the R180 and Hybrid R160/R180 driveshaft assemblies next to each other? The axle lengths according to technical documents disagree greatly but they don't take the inner and outer joints into consideration. Perhaps the fully assembled dimensions are close enough.

Thanks.

Sorry, no pics here, but I wondered the same thing, so I did a test fit before fully assembling them...when the shafts are completely parallel to the ground, they should theoretically be "pushed in" the most. While they were indeed very close to bottoming out in the cups, there was a wee bit of room to spare, so I went for it.

I've had no issues yet, and have run them for 3500 miles so far.

scby rex · 10-26-2010, 11:20 PM

Sounds like a waste of money and time to me, why not just get the knuckles and be done with it. What happens when one of your rear axles snaps then you have to buy ten more. When you could just spend 150 bucks and get a new r180 axle.

mowgli29 · 10-27-2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scby rex

Sounds like a waste of money and time to me, why not just get the knuckles and be done with it. What happens when one of your rear axles snaps then you have to buy ten more. When you could just spend 150 bucks and get a new r180 axle.

Maybe I'm taking your statement the wrong way, but it seems rather arrogant and bit ignorant. Take a second and think about it...

Personally, I wanted a halfway decent LSD in the rear, but I didn't want to have to run Brembos.

Yes, I realize a person could use the FHI rear 2 pots and group n "gravel rotors," but either way, that's added expense. Stock brake pads and rotors are WAY cheaper than Brembo stuff. In addition, you (generally) can't run smaller than a 17" wheel with Brembos, which = FAIL for those who rally. I know I have no desire to shell out the cash for 17" snow tires, either; my 16" blizzaks have plenty of life left.

Brembos also add weight, which is stupid if a person doesn't need/want the braking capabilities of the Brembos.

Lastly, I'm not concerned about the axles breaking. I don't drive hard enough to break them, at least not any time soon.

It's my DD; I want to keep maintenance costs low, keep it reliable, but have some fun with it too. Its all about compromises, and for some people, hybrid axles fit the bill.

AcquaCow · 10-27-2010, 01:02 AM

Pretty awesome work, man!!!

The good news is, if you ever needed to replace one of those axles, you could probably swap those parts over to the new one anyways...

hybrid gti 2 · 10-27-2010, 01:20 AM

From what I can figure between hubs, brakes and related parts. This idea can save $800. That could go toward other mods. Rear only has 30% braking power. This is a no brain-er mod. If you race, maybe the brembo setup might be slightly better. Or maybe a larger kit even better. It simply offers options that have been desired for some time. As well to get stronger parts and cost effective lsd.

I don't know about others but I have broken many trans and diffs. Yet to break an axle. slice a boot sometimes but never straight up kill an axle. front or rear. So if I have to hybrid a few parts to get what I want ok. That's not so bad in order to get stronger parts and save $800 on pretty parts.

mowgli29 · 10-27-2010, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hybrid gti 2

From what I can figure between hubs, brakes and related parts. This idea can save $800. That could go toward other mods. Rear only has 30% braking power. This is a no brain-er mod. If you race, maybe the brembo setup might be slightly better. Or maybe a larger kit even better. It simply offers options that have been desired for some time. As well to get stronger parts and cost effective lsd.

I don't know about others but I have broken many trans and diffs. Yet to break an axle. slice a boot sometimes but never straight up kill an axle. front or rear. So if I have to hybrid a few parts to get what I want ok. That's not so bad in order to get stronger parts and save $800 on pretty parts.

egg jackery. totally agree.

MRF582 · 10-27-2010, 05:26 PM

What material is your hybrid race made from? How does it compare to the stock units?

What sort of secondary operations does your hybrid race under go if any? For example, cryo treating, case hardening etc.

How does the 04 STI inner race differ other than 6 ball bearings versus 8? Is the OD of the race the same as an 05 STI or is it the same as the WRX? How do the ball bearing diameters differ?

Also, can you PM me your paypal address?

suberdave · 10-30-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRF582

What material is your hybrid race made from? How does it compare to the stock units?

What sort of secondary operations does your hybrid race under go if any? For example, cryo treating, case hardening etc.

How does the 04 STI inner race differ other than 6 ball bearings versus 8? Is the OD of the race the same as an 05 STI or is it the same as the WRX? How do the ball bearing diameters differ?

Also, can you PM me your paypal address?

first off i will see what technicial info i can get for you on the races...

how they differ from 04- reces. they use 8 balls rather than 6. the spline count is different on the 04- (30) than the 05+(32). im not sure on the ball size, i would have to check on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uninformed Internet Technician

Sounds like a waste of money and time to me, why not just get the knuckles and be done with it. What happens when one of your rear axles snaps then you have to buy ten more. When you could just spend 150 bucks and get a new r180 axle.

I dont think you understand what we are doing here...

And who said anything about buying 10 axles? I can stop by my local parts house and pick up a WRX axle for about $60. the other parts can be swaped onto that axle.

Anyhow i have more races if anyone else is interested...

-=Suberdave=-

MRF582 · 10-31-2010, 06:31 PM

Material specs would be nice. It will give some indication of how the part will hold up as it's exposed to cyclical loading. In the mean time, I'll try to research what material most stock units are made up of.

suberdave · 11-02-2010, 09:50 PM

Email from company that made the races...

Quote:

The races are made out of chromoly steel billet. They are heat treated to provide more strength and toughness than an OEM part.
The specific alloy and heat treatment we use is proprietary.

-=Suberdave=-

hustleshark206 · 11-03-2010, 06:21 PM

Some people like me would like to do a STi drivetrain swap but want to keep their 5x100 wheels. I have a lot of $$ into my 4 pot setup and am not interested in Brembos either. This gives us an option to do both.

Cheers to you Suberdave

Out of curiosity can you pm me a price for a set of these? Thanks!

MRF582 · 11-03-2010, 06:32 PM

Sent my donation/gift.

I was hoping you'd say chromoly since that's what the OEM parts are made from. Just didn't want to suggest an answer to you and have you say 'yeah'.

BTW, did you talk to Marty at Raxles in Gainesville, FL? Great guy. He helped me a few years ago when I was there and was in the process of rebuilding my axles.

02 wrx roar · 02-21-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mowgli29

Sorry, no pics here, but I wondered the same thing, so I did a test fit before fully assembling them...when the shafts are completely parallel to the ground, they should theoretically be "pushed in" the most. While they were indeed very close to bottoming out in the cups, there was a wee bit of room to spare, so I went for it.

I've had no issues yet, and have run them for 3500 miles so far.

Hey bud pm me aprice or where to get these im very interested

mowgli29 · 02-21-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02 wrx roar

Hey bud pm me aprice or where to get these im very interested

Shoot a PM to SuberDave, the OP. He might still have some for sale. I bought mine from him.

and, UPDATE: I've got ~10,000 miles on the hybrid axles (with SuberDave's inner races), and all is well. Not a hint of a problem yet....knock on wood.

09-01-2010, 12:25 AM	#1
suberdave Scooby Specialist Member#: 101865 Join Date: Nov 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Covington, WA Vehicle: 88 GL-10 STi silver	Hybrid axles "The Missing Link" The Missing Link to the R180 install with R160 hubs... So I needed to install an R180 diff with my 6 speed swap, but did not want to install the rear R180 rear hubs. So I did some research and found that the inner cup of the R180 axle shaft could be joined to an R160 axle shaft with the aid of a custom CV race. I did much research online and made many long distance phone calls and found a CV company that could make me the custom race that I needed. Problem was that like many things in manufacturing, they would not make me just 2, I had to have 10 min made. So if anyone else wants to do this same thing... PM me I have extras to sale... left is 2005+ STI inner race center is custom STI / WRX Race Right is 2002 WRX inner race This is how it works. You must use 05+ STI inner shafts with 8 balls on the race and cage. the 04 and earlier have 6 balls and will not work with this custom race. First take apart both shafts. Remove the CV boot clamps. if you do this right you can reuse them. Next remove the retaining ring holding the inner joint together. Next the Snap ring at the end of the shaft. and it is now apart... Now put it back together using the WRX shaft, the custom race, and the STI inner joint. And now you have a custom shaft to install your R180 diff in your Subaru using your stock hubs... -=Suberdave=- www.suberdave.com * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by suberdave; 09-01-2010 at 12:31 AM.

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09-01-2010, 01:25 AM	#2
minifreak Scooby Specialist Member#: 116914 Join Date: Jun 2006 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Beautiful British Columbia Vehicle: 2006 WRX Wagon Obsidian Black	This would be a nice alternative to sourcing Spec B axles. If this was available a earlier I wouldn't have to buy a set of STi hubs just to run R180.

09-01-2010, 01:33 AM	#3
mowgli29 Scooby Specialist Member#: 203438 Join Date: Feb 2009 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: St. Louis, MO Vehicle: 2002 WRX PSM	GREAT post Suberdave! I've heard for wayyyyy too long now that "it just won't work," or "you have to get DSS hybrid axles." Let me be the first to say, "THANK YOU!" for being such a pioneer. I'm certainly excited to put my set to good use, and I'd certainly think there are plenty of fellow members itching to do the same! BTW, any idea where the best place to get boots would be? I actually went to most local places, as well as the dealership, and nobody had them. Certainly universal boots aren't my only option, are they? If so, know of any decent ones?

09-01-2010, 02:53 AM	#4
kpluiten Scooby Guru Member#: 120273 Join Date: Jul 2006 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: AZ Vehicle: 06 WRBWRXWGN Now with 100% more Spec-C	Sticky! Great work.

09-01-2010, 03:04 AM	#5
181stLeader Scooby Specialist Member#: 184183 Join Date: Jul 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: The OC Vehicle: 1996 Impreza RSTi V8 EJ207 Aerosim Carbon	Nice work! too bad I just installed 5x114.3 hubs this past weekend PM me pricing on the hybrid inner race. I may have somebody interested in this.

09-01-2010, 04:21 PM	#6
hybrid gti 2 Scooby Guru Member#: 67004 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: (818) 300k+ ej205 ppg 5mt Vehicle: 02 vf30 pnp wagon silver and cf	Oh nice. Thanx for posting that! Sending pm

10-15-2010, 04:42 PM	#7
nxwrxfx Scooby Specialist Member#: 92011 Join Date: Jul 2005 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: ATX Vehicle: 02 EJ207 STi HTA68 05 EJ257 Baja STi 18G-XT	Awesome thread! I agree this should be stickied! PM'd as well!

10-16-2010, 09:44 AM	#8
fastwrx25 Scooby Guru Member#: 126441 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: TPE Vehicle: 03 bugeye	much props for you to getting this done.

10-20-2010, 07:44 PM	#9
tpc0531 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252936 Join Date: Jul 2010	Check your email, I'm interested is a set.

10-20-2010, 07:59 PM	#10
M4c0770 Scooby Newbie Member#: 225851 Join Date: Oct 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Location: FL, USA & San Juan, PR Vehicle: 07 Spec Wannabe Limited in San Remo Red	Nice job... I might be interested. Got Pm! rops:

10-26-2010, 09:50 PM	#11
MRF582 Scooby Guru Member#: 48219 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: . Always drive the race line .	Can you post a top down (lengthwise) view of the R180 and Hybrid R160/R180 driveshaft assemblies next to each other? The axle lengths according to technical documents disagree greatly but they don't take the inner and outer joints into consideration. Perhaps the fully assembled dimensions are close enough. Thanks.

10-26-2010, 11:20 PM	#13
scby rex Scooby Guru Member#: 104878 Join Date: Jan 2006 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: copperas cove Vehicle: 02 wrxbastardchild aw, MPS 2.34 breaking in	Sounds like a waste of money and time to me, why not just get the knuckles and be done with it. What happens when one of your rear axles snaps then you have to buy ten more. When you could just spend 150 bucks and get a new r180 axle.

10-27-2010, 01:02 AM	#15
AcquaCow Scooby Guru Member#: 36838 Join Date: May 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Reston VA Vehicle: 2001 B50 RSTi Sedan 2011 DGM WRX hatch	Pretty awesome work, man!!! The good news is, if you ever needed to replace one of those axles, you could probably swap those parts over to the new one anyways...

10-27-2010, 01:20 AM	#16
hybrid gti 2 Scooby Guru Member#: 67004 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: (818) 300k+ ej205 ppg 5mt Vehicle: 02 vf30 pnp wagon silver and cf	From what I can figure between hubs, brakes and related parts. This idea can save $800. That could go toward other mods. Rear only has 30% braking power. This is a no brain-er mod. If you race, maybe the brembo setup might be slightly better. Or maybe a larger kit even better. It simply offers options that have been desired for some time. As well to get stronger parts and cost effective lsd. I don't know about others but I have broken many trans and diffs. Yet to break an axle. slice a boot sometimes but never straight up kill an axle. front or rear. So if I have to hybrid a few parts to get what I want ok. That's not so bad in order to get stronger parts and save $800 on pretty parts.

10-27-2010, 05:26 PM	#18
MRF582 Scooby Guru Member#: 48219 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: . Always drive the race line .	What material is your hybrid race made from? How does it compare to the stock units? What sort of secondary operations does your hybrid race under go if any? For example, cryo treating, case hardening etc. How does the 04 STI inner race differ other than 6 ball bearings versus 8? Is the OD of the race the same as an 05 STI or is it the same as the WRX? How do the ball bearing diameters differ? Also, can you PM me your paypal address?

10-31-2010, 06:31 PM	#20
MRF582 Scooby Guru Member#: 48219 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: . Always drive the race line .	Material specs would be nice. It will give some indication of how the part will hold up as it's exposed to cyclical loading. In the mean time, I'll try to research what material most stock units are made up of.

11-03-2010, 06:21 PM	#22
hustleshark206 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182227 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: seattle, WA/ Jackson WY Vehicle: 2000 MPS Built RS 1991 Leggy Turbo EJ22t	Some people like me would like to do a STi drivetrain swap but want to keep their 5x100 wheels. I have a lot of $$ into my 4 pot setup and am not interested in Brembos either. This gives us an option to do both. Cheers to you Suberdave Out of curiosity can you pm me a price for a set of these? Thanks!

11-03-2010, 06:32 PM	#23
MRF582 Scooby Guru Member#: 48219 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: . Always drive the race line .	Sent my donation/gift. I was hoping you'd say chromoly since that's what the OEM parts are made from. Just didn't want to suggest an answer to you and have you say 'yeah'. BTW, did you talk to Marty at Raxles in Gainesville, FL? Great guy. He helped me a few years ago when I was there and was in the process of rebuilding my axles.