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Old 03-30-2011, 09:15 PM   #1
subergoo
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Default 03 wrx with no sub frame?

I posted a thread recently about up grading my subframe because i messed my stock one up really bad . Ultimately it sounds like this "up grade" is a waste of money. I have also heard of people running their cars with out this piece installed at all??!!! (its the big horseshoe shaped thing that goes under the radiator and back either side of the car)... anyway my question is this, have people really run their cars with out this piece and if so what was the result?
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:35 PM   #2
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I honestly cannot think of a reason to not have it. Better frame rigidity is always a good thing
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subergoo View Post
I posted a thread recently about up grading my subframe because i messed my stock one up really bad . Ultimately it sounds like this "up grade" is a waste of money. I have also heard of people running their cars with out this piece installed at all??!!! (its the big horseshoe shaped thing that goes under the radiator and back either side of the car)... anyway my question is this, have people really run their cars with out this piece and if so what was the result?
For results why not just take it off and go drive. You can see for yourself if you prefer to have it or not.

From what I've been told the JDM versions do not have this subframe on their cars. Not sure if that is all of them or only specific models though, but that information came straight from a few friends who have been in Japan and looked underneath the cars over there.

Some people prefer to keep it on, others prefer how their car handles with it off. Only way to tell is to take it for a drive without it on and see what you think.
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:57 PM   #4
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It is on the car due to US Safety standards, if you want to take it off, your car wont meet crash testing results. As well, If you do upgrade it, the main difference is on/off throttle rigidity and in turns.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:05 AM   #5
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weight reduction freaks have been taking off their subframes for years for drag racing.
for every day driving, IMO it would be worth it to find replacement.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:10 AM   #6
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Word, it was added for US safety regulations. The stock subframe doesn't really provide any type of performance benefit, as a matter of fact, a lot of track-goers prefer to ditch it in order to save 40lbs from the nose of the car. You'll be fine driving around without it as long as you're cool with whatever safety implications it may cause (which I have no clue about).
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:26 AM   #7
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I've never missed mine on either of my wrx's....I have a cusco lower arm bar and it is all good

the weight off the front is a good thing
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:29 AM   #8
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The subframe is a crash protection piece. It is designed to move the engine down in a frontal collision.

It does not weigh 40 lbs, it weighs 25 lbs - still a lot of weight.

I've read TiC feels it helps handling and I have talked with long-time Subie guys who say they can feel a handling difference without it, but it is subtle. The bracing it provides is easily reproducible with an aftermarket unit, however, the multipoint, $600 subframes aren't necessary, particularly on a street/auto-X car. The "H" or ladder type braces are enough.

I took mine off and wouldn't put it back on.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:00 AM   #9
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Well, for daily driving, the OP's already demonstrated one benefit: it took a hit and kept more critical parts from being damaged. This is in addition to the crash safety benefits that it was designed for by top engineers.

So, my opinion is to keep it for DD, experiment if you wish for track.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:08 AM   #10
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Just to be clear, it is not a subframe. It is simply a u-shaped brace. It does not support any part of the vehicle. Removing it does reduce chassis rigidity and could/would lower your crash safety.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:02 PM   #11
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I've swapped this part with a multipoint brace (RPM unit) both on my car and others'. I've always felt that they made a very noticeable difference in rigidity of the front of the car in turns. Turn-in felt much more crisp. The creaking and groaning on a friend's car improved noticeably.

Is it (aftermarket multipoint brace) needed for a street car? Probably not. But to say they don't do anything is pretty silly. My brace did a lot.

Last edited by kpluiten; 03-31-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:06 PM   #12
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hmmmm... thanks for all the input guys. I think im gonna bite the bullet and order a new OEM one, for $400
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subergoo View Post
hmmmm... thanks for all the input guys. I think im gonna bite the bullet and order a new OEM one, for $400
Personally, if I was going to be spending that much on a new brace I would just save up a bit more and get the Oswald Performance Brace.

http://oswaldperformance.com/WRXFRONTSUBFRAME.aspx
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukewrx View Post
Personally, if I was going to be spending that much on a new brace I would just save up a bit more and get the Oswald Performance Brace.

http://oswaldperformance.com/WRXFRONTSUBFRAME.aspx
This! No way I would pay that much for another stock one.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:54 PM   #15
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yeah I was gonna go with the oswald one (it looks pretty sweet and just $200 more shipped)!!!!!!! but those M Fers wont get back to me.!!!!! I have practically begged them to take my money and I get nothin
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:29 PM   #16
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why would you order another oem u-brace when they can be found used for next to nothing?
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subergoo View Post
hmmmm... thanks for all the input guys. I think im gonna bite the bullet and order a new OEM one, for $400
are you out of your ****ing MIND????

a boneyard would be less than $50 I'd bet


and a Cusco one would be less than $200


dont be a fool
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:13 PM   #18
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Guys?.... I know im still a "Scooby Newbie" but the thought of getting one from a salvage yard had actually occurred to me... unfortunately i live in Wichita Kansas and guess what?! the pickins are pretty damn slim in the Subaru department at all the bone yards with in 200 freakin miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
are you out of your ****ing MIND????

a boneyard would be less than $50 I'd bet


and a Cusco one would be less than $200


dont be a fool
NO I'm not outta my ****ing MIND!!!!! and im not really foolish ... just very, very BITTER
The best I could do was ebay ...found one used and shipped for $350
but you say cusco offers this piece for around $200???
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subergoo View Post
Guys?.... I know im still a "Scooby Newbie" but the thought of getting one from a salvage yard had actually occurred to me... unfortunately i live in Wichita Kansas and guess what?! the pickins are pretty damn slim in the Subaru department at all the bone yards with in 200 freakin miles


NO I'm not outta my ****ing MIND!!!!! and im not really foolish ... just very, very BITTER
The best I could do was ebay ...found one used and shipped for $350
but you say cusco offers this piece for around $200???
http://www.rallitek.com/Cusco-Lower-Arm-Bar/p-4545

that pic is wrong but the bar is right

http://www.supergt.com.hk/full/LACUGDBF02.jpg

Part # : 666-477A


add a set of HD cowl stays and ya FAR better off than using the stock 'U' brace

I promise
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:33 PM   #20
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I am replacing my u-brace soon with one of these h-braces (lower arms bars), it should be noted that they are not really direct fit if you don't have the u-brace in place. If you buy a h-brace designed for the GD chassis you need a couple of spacers at the front mounting points where the u-brace usually sits. If you buy a h-brace designed for the GC chassis which does fit the GD but you need to grind off part of the subframe where the u-brace usually bolts up.

I'm going with a GC brace on my car, either whiteline ksb700 or ebay spec. I like the way the GC brace bolts up and it should be a lot more rigid than a GD brace with spacers.

Also the whiteline braces are tubular whereas most others use a rectangular bar, the tubular bar should be stiffer is this correct?
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDwhiteWRX View Post
I am replacing my u-brace soon with one of these h-braces (lower arms bars), it should be noted that they are not really direct fit if you don't have the u-brace in place. If you buy a h-brace designed for the GD chassis you need a couple of spacers at the front mounting points where the u-brace usually sits. If you buy a h-brace designed for the GC chassis which does fit the GD but you need to grind off part of the subframe where the u-brace usually bolts up.

I'm going with a GC brace on my car, either whiteline ksb700 or ebay spec. I like the way the GC brace bolts up and it should be a lot more rigid than a GD brace with spacers.

Also the whiteline braces are tubular whereas most others use a rectangular bar, the tubular bar should be stiffer is this correct?
BEWARE....other country cars may be different and spacers may or may not be required

and different bars may or may NOT work


and different MY cars are different and fitment may or may be different
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDwhiteWRX View Post
I am replacing my u-brace soon with one of these h-braces (lower arms bars), it should be noted that they are not really direct fit if you don't have the u-brace in place. If you buy a h-brace designed for the GD chassis you need a couple of spacers at the front mounting points where the u-brace usually sits. If you buy a h-brace designed for the GC chassis which does fit the GD but you need to grind off part of the subframe where the u-brace usually bolts up.

I'm going with a GC brace on my car, either whiteline ksb700 or ebay spec. I like the way the GC brace bolts up and it should be a lot more rigid than a GD brace with spacers.

Also the whiteline braces are tubular whereas most others use a rectangular bar, the tubular bar should be stiffer is this correct?
I used the KSB700 on my USDM 07 STi. You are correct, ditch the OEM subframe and grind off the mounting tabs at the forward mounting positions (I used an abrasive cutting wheel). It makes a nice difference.
Here it is on my car:

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Old 03-31-2011, 08:18 PM   #23
subergoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
http://www.rallitek.com/Cusco-Lower-Arm-Bar/p-4545

that pic is wrong but the bar is right

http://www.supergt.com.hk/full/LACUGDBF02.jpg

Part # : 666-477A


add a set of HD cowl stays and ya FAR better off than using the stock 'U' brace

I promise
so this cusco brace replaces the stock one, or goes over it? and these HD cowl stays? im assuming you run with them and they made a big difference?
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:20 AM   #24
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alot of good info in this thread about fitment and options...

I feel there is a noticeable difference in rigidity with the stock subframe off the car. I couldn't feel the difference in weight loss like I did when I swapped in odyssey pc680 battery, and oswald lw front beam(at different times).

hbrace is a great mod that tightens front up very noticeable.

I am currently using a carbing subframe, it works and fits great, I like the fact that it mounts up to the jacking plate, you can really feel the difference in tranny movement when shifting and less lurching of the driveline.

I really like the gtspec lower tie bar, I think that in combination with a h brace would be a great combo. that would be the next brace i would try, I read that it fits with the carbing.

on a budget I would get a ebay hbrace, and some fender cowl braces for bracing.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:59 PM   #25
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hey fastwrx25... any chance you could post a pic of the underside of your car? and or links to the carbing subframe you use?
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