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Old 11-21-2011, 01:18 PM   #1
subilife
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Default td04 or vf39

i have a 02 wrx im planing on doing a vf39 setup should i stay with the td04 and go stage 2 or do a vf39 setup....i just want more torque no top end
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:45 PM   #2
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I was very happy with the gains I had switching to a VF39 on my 03 but I have heard of some people running E85 on their TD04 getting some great TQ out of them
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:49 PM   #3
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Honestly the gains to stage 2 feel great but you will be stuck wanting more. I think I was stage 2 on my wrx for a whole 3 weeks before going to a vf39.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:53 PM   #4
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Vf39, you will regret not doing it
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:58 PM   #5
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my friend has a 02 wrx with a vf39 setup and all necessary mods of course vf39,pinks,255 walbro fp,sti tmic,cai,up/downpipe and he got it tuned at 15 psi ..he only has top end power it feels like he had more power with the td04 ...im still deciding if i should stay with my td04
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:06 PM   #6
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Run a 3 port BCS TBE, STI TMIC, Catless Up pipe, maybe an EWG if your feeling frisky. But the 3 port and ewg will help spool up quite a bit and give you some more down low.

Other than that E85 would be good for making more torque but you have an 02 with the even weaker gears and may run into transmission issues before you get the power down low you are wanting
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:06 PM   #7
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could it be the tune on his car he got an open source tune
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subilife View Post
could it be the tune on his car he got an open source tune
As far as your query, it depends on the tuner and not the method. A tune can be configured for higher torque just as easily as higher HP, within the limits of the end user's setup.
Open Source tunes are perfectly fine.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:16 PM   #9
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There are a lot of things at play. The tune can make a huge difference in when the turbo spools up. When you put a larger turbo on the car it is going to spool up later but with a good tune you can help it out, especially with supporting mods like a 3 port boost solenoid and an external wastegate.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:25 PM   #10
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You won't regret a VF upgrade, but you also won't regret a stage 2 upgrade either. Some other simple upgrades you can look at to help with lag so you can get better low end is an up pipe and also blanket the hot side of the turbo.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:14 PM   #11
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If torque is your goal on the low end, get a hot stock turbo tune....no substitute for that as it will be a fat and tall torque curve.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:50 PM   #12
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Stay with the stock turbo, go stage 2 and pnp everything. Nothing beats stock for lag and any more lag will hurt the feel of your low end even if a bigger turbo woukd give you a bigger number. Or buy a V8.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:25 AM   #13
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this is not necessarily true...my fpred setup is putting down just as much if not more tq at 3000rpm and only 7psi as your stock turbo stage 2 setup is at 3000rpm and 17psi...alot of people forget that just because a bigger turbo doesn't see full boost until 4500rpm doesn't mean that it doesn't make power until then. a vf39's tq curve can be just as flat as the td04, and 9/10 will make the same or a bit more torque than the td04. i don't think i have ever tuned a td04 setup that made more torque than the same car with a vf39 setup.

Last edited by amalgrover; 11-22-2011 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:45 AM   #14
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OP I think the biggest question that needs to be asked is your budget. But realistically, short of larger injectors and the vf-39 itself, the price you'll pay to get some hot numbers on a td04 will essentially be the same as going vf-39.

The jump from a well supported td04 to a well supported vf-39 is pretty extreme performance wise, while the price jump is not too bad.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:48 AM   #15
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stay with td04. VF39 on the 2.0L is gonna rob you of that low-end torque that you apparently want.

I've gotten a test-ride in a 2.0L VF39 before... really was not impressive at all for DD. spirited drives around town felt like my then stock 2.5L WRX. Of course I didn't want to be rude so I told the owner "it's pretty fast" - but I lied.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:19 AM   #16
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^ just really think about what you just said...

the VF39'd 2.0L felt the same as a TD04'd 2.5L...so the VF39 was enough to make up for .5L's of displacement...and then some if i had to guess...I can pretty much guarantee that if you looked at a dyno sheet, trapspeed, etc., that VF39'd 2.0L was quicker than your STOCK 2.5L WRX in every way. while the VF39 may not be a HUGE difference over the stock turbo in terms of power gains, it DOES gain power, and it is definitely worth the $300-$1000 (depending on model year and parts selection) spent on the upgrade...at least for the people that like doing transitional and gradual upgrades.

please don't take my posts as necessarily a VF39 supporter only. i am actually a pretty big fan of the TD04's if the setup and owner's desires are right. i am just trying to defend the VF a little bit, and trying to keep the false or opinionated information to a minimum so that you can make an actual educated decision and not just an opinionated one.

this is one of the better threads for info on differences between turbo options for your car http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1141476. it may not be all inclusive, but it should help quite a bit with your decision.

Last edited by amalgrover; 11-22-2011 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subilife View Post
i have a 02 wrx im planing on doing a vf39 setup should i stay with the td04 and go stage 2 or do a vf39 setup....i just want more torque no top end
Once you put an up/dp and exhaust on the td04 you'll really see that it falls on it's face by 5000rpms. With a good tune on the vf39 your spool up will only suffer by 200-300 rpms and it will pull harder every where else.
Go with the vf39 and call it a day....you won't regret it.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:37 AM   #18
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Since the upgrades are staged, start with an up pipe, downpipe, catback exhaust, and then a stage 2 tune. After some time passes if you aren't satisfied, purchase the turbo, fuel support, and tune for a VF-39.

It's really that simple. There's no reason to jump right into the VF-39.
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:44 AM   #19
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The only problem with up and down pipe replacement is that the OP lives in CA. Smog every 2 years and CARB make switching the up and down pipes a hassle at best, unless you know someone that knows someone and are willing to shell out some cash. I could probably do the work myself, or get a friend to, but sometimes that isn't possible. OP I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but that is a consideration for some of us looking to do the same thing.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmount View Post
The only problem with up and down pipe replacement is that the OP lives in CA. Smog every 2 years and CARB make switching the up and down pipes a hassle at best, unless you know someone that knows someone and are willing to shell out some cash. I could probably do the work myself, or get a friend to, but sometimes that isn't possible. OP I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but that is a consideration for some of us looking to do the same thing.

You can easily pass a smog test with NO cat if your cars running good.. But it wont pass visual if they do it
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:59 AM   #21
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Im stage 2 with stock turbo, I was thinking about going stage III with the VF39 too. But knowing me I probably want to go even bigger later on. Ive read some good stuff about PnP td04s and etc.

My plan is PnP TD04 to hold me over till i save up money for this: a PPG transmission to support the power i want, after that 2.0 with forged internals and a 20G turbo.

I think the best thing to do is research research research. Find out what you want, read through the turbo list about spooling, power, etc.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:26 PM   #22
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... I hate co workers...

Last edited by JdMS13; 11-24-2011 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:44 PM   #23
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PnP TF04? What is that? (Noob, sorry)

Well VF39 is the final limit of WRX tranny so going beyond that will require for you to get some new gears. I was looking into VF39 myself but the gains didnt impress me, but again without spending a fortune on tranny, it is the best WRX can do
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:11 PM   #24
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this is just flat out not true...i'm not saying that planning ahead and buying a transmission before it leaves you stranded is wrong, but there are just as many people at stock power that blow trannies (no homo), and i know quite a few people making well over vf39 power that are doing just fine on the stock tranny for years and counting...there is no official FINAL LIMIT of the wrx transmission...it has alot more to do with how, where, and who than it does what your power level is.


...how you drive it, where you drive it, and who is driving it for anyone who may have not understood that...

Last edited by amalgrover; 11-22-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
this is not necessarily true...my fpred setup is putting down just as much if not more tq at 3000rpm and only 7psi as your stock turbo stage 2 setup is at 3000rpm and 17psi...alot of people forget that just because a bigger turbo doesn't see full boost until 4500rpm doesn't mean that it doesn't make power until then. a vf39's tq curve can be just as flat as the td04, and 9/10 will make the same or a bit more torque than the td04. i don't think i have ever tuned a td04 setup that made more torque than the same car with a vf39 setup.
I get what you are saying and do not disagree about the torque numbers, but sometimes the feel is more important than the actual numbers. Lag can make a car feel slow even when the numbers say it is not. Trust me, I know lag because of the 4EAT.
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