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Old 01-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #2826
BrysImpreza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post

I guess you missed my prediction, that the number on fuelly will climb after engine break in. That's what happened for the 2012 Impreza's on Fuelly.
Predict all you want, we're still not in the ballpark, even the parking lot, we're on the interstate stuck in traffic 2 exits back.

I find Subaru's performance unacceptable in this case. If i under delivered by these margins at work I would be in jail with a life sentence.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:34 PM   #2827
Zeeper
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I think it's time you stop chatting with us koolaide drinkers and file a claim with the EPA already.

Let us know the outcome, I'll be around NASIOC for a while given I plan to drive this car into the ground, and it only has 9,000 miles on it...
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:37 PM   #2828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
I think it's time you stop chatting with us koolaide drinkers and file a claim with the EPA already.

Let us know the outcome, I'll be around NASIOC for a while given I plan to drive this car into the ground, and it only has 9,000 miles on it...
That's great as you'll be spending more money on gas rather than kool-aid, maybe you'll get some clarity and some sense by then.

2013 is 0 for 27 cars making the EPA estimate.

Bravo Subaru...
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:44 PM   #2829
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I don't spend much on gas, I drive under 9,000 miles a year and my car gets about 28 mpg, exactly what the window sticker promised me.

You really need to trade or contact the EPA, all this forum whining isn't going to make you feel any better. The data is there, anyone can access it and determine the truth for themself.

A lot of Impreza owners seem to be doing better than you. Some are doing worse. Don't extrapolate your own personal data into something other than what it is.

By the way, let us know the numbers printed on your sticker, because I think the Combined number you are providing is not the number actually printed on your sticker (you might be inflating it a little bit, to improve your argument)...
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:47 PM   #2830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post

By the way, let us know the numbers printed on your sticker, because I think the Combined number you are providing is not the number actually printed on your sticker (you might be inflating it a little bit, to improve your argument)...
27 City 36 Highway. 2012 Impreza Sport Limited CVT PZEV

Smart guy.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:51 PM   #2831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
I don't spend much on gas, I drive under 9,000 miles a year and my car gets about 28 mpg, exactly what the window sticker promised me.

You really need to trade or contact the EPA, all this forum whining isn't going to make you feel any better. The data is there, anyone can access it and determine the truth for themself.

A lot of Impreza owners seem to be doing better than you. Some are doing worse. Don't extrapolate your own personal data into something other than what it is.

By the way, let us know the numbers printed on your sticker, because I think the Combined number you are providing is not the number actually printed on your sticker (you might be inflating it a little bit, to improve your argument)...
Thank you Zeeper! My sticker numbers for my cvt hatch is 5.5l/100km hwy 7.6 city.
In the non winter gas weather I was spot on or very close. Now I'm getting 8.8 city with the winter. Compared to my 08 I'm getting almost an extra 200km per tank city and 400 hwy.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:55 PM   #2832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrysImpreza View Post
27 City 36 Highway. 2012 Impreza Sport Limited CVT PZEV

Smart guy.
No, what is the COMBINED MPG number printed on your window sticker.

This is the easy part, look at your sticker, it is printed on it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:32 PM   #2833
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Have a 2012 Sport Limited Wagon with CVT. Daily getting 29 - 31 MPG to work mixed, and best run was 36 highway over most of tank full.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:58 PM   #2834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
No, what is the COMBINED MPG number printed on your window sticker.

This is the easy part, look at your sticker, it is printed on it.
The answer is 30, not 31.5.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:59 PM   #2835
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The COMBINED MPG is 30. Not the 31.5 that Brys is making up.

So that dubious 27.78 from the last page is 7.4% off, not 12%.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:09 PM   #2836
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
I feel fine already, I just like people to be accurate when they make a claim.
Zeeper you are not the one who is accurate here, so quit eating the mushrooms or whatever it is that makes you try to forget about the comparisons that have been made here showing the Impreza gets much worse in reality than the numbers Subaru gave to the EPA compared to other vehicles with the same mpg numbers - both EPA and in reality, in independent tests that have nothing to do with these posts.

Have you no self respect?

And you still keep forgetting that you have the 5 speed and the problem is with the cvt.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:26 PM   #2837
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random thoughts that might not lend something helpful, but i like hearing myself type

- one thing i am almost certain is contributing to the lower than stellar numbers is the E10 gas most of us have no choice in buying. i would guess (but i'm guessing) that any EPA test run (especially if done by Subaru) would be conducted using 100% gas.

- i am now finally seeing the effects of winter gas and the cooler weather, even though i live in the mild SF Bay Area in CA. right around December, i saw my mileage dip about 2-3mpg from what i was getting over the course of owning the car from April 2012 under similar conditions. i used to be able to very easily predict my mileage based on my average speed over the tankful. i'm now registering a low 25mpg for about 80% city driving (ave speed of 22MPH) where before i would see around 28mpg on the computer. and yes, my computer reads about 2MPG low on average, although that is offset by my odometer which has repeatedly been tested (by both GPS distances and Google maps) to under report miles traveled by 3.5%.)

my overall mileage on the computer is 29.7MPG, Fuelly is 28.0MPG, but when the latter is adjusted for the underestimating odometer, it puts me near 29MPG. not too bad, since i have about 70% of my overall driving around suburbia.

as others have said, if you keep it 65MPH or under, 36-40MPG is pretty reasonable once the car is warmed up.

but short, quick trips of under 5 miles (like i do regularly), stop and go traffic, and winter gas drive the city mileage of this car way down.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:36 PM   #2838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Zeeper you are not the one who is accurate here, so quit eating the mushrooms or whatever it is that makes you try to forget about the comparisons that have been made here showing the Impreza gets much worse in reality than the numbers Subaru gave to the EPA compared to other vehicles with the same mpg numbers - both EPA and in reality, in independent tests that have nothing to do with these posts.

Have you no self respect?

And you still keep forgetting that you have the 5 speed and the problem is with the cvt.
And you keep ignoring that your spreadsheet using published numbers from Consumer Reports is somewhat irrelevant, given that Consumer Reports tested the CVT, and praises the excellent mileage for an AWD car, and recommends it as a top pick, and for reliability.

But those are facts anyone can verify for themself, from the horses mouth (since we both seem to be using Consumer Reports to bolster our case, let's see what they have to say, unfiltered by either of us):


Last edited by Zeeper; 01-10-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:00 PM   #2839
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My MPG numbers so far are in line with Zeeper's (might drive even fewer miles per year) - just turned a little over 500 mi. after a month of having the car with approx. 40/60 city/hwy driving. 2013 CVT hatch. Hoping after the engine "breaks in completely" fuel economy will improve. Coming from V6 & V8 RWD cars, I can live with the mileage I'm seeing especially knowing this car has AWD and its associated weight and friction penalties.
Also interested in how much of a improvement in MPGs can be had by using ethanol-free gasoline. Will have to find a station locally that sells the unadulterated stuff in the near future to find out... FWIW, I'm pretty skeptical of any manufacturer's claimed EPA numbers since I doubt anyone in the real world drives in conditions and speeds similar to the test schedule. If anyone does, good for them but stay out of everyone else's way.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #2840
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
What were your reasons for getting rid of the GTI? It sounds like the only reasons were to get an automatic tranny and better MPGs. Or were there other features of the Impreza that caused you to make that choice, like that it has 4 doors?



As someone who went from a TDI to an Impreza (although mine has the manual tranny), I have the following comments and perspective:
  • You said "but did not rev at 2k for 15mins and lose 4 mpg going a mile down the road". The only way you will see that kind of change in your average MPG reading is if you recently filled the tank and zeroed the trip odometer. Average MPG won't change that quickly once you have more miles on the trip.
  • Don't forget to factor in the higher price of the premium gas the GTI requires compared to the regular gas you're feeding the Impreza. You say that you could easily get more than 30 MPG in the GTI. Now I'm not going to call you a liar, but just for the record, the average MPG for the Impreza on Fuelly is 28 MPG, and the average for the GTI on Fuelly is 26 MPG. Regardless, the GTI wasn't cheaper to operate because of the more expensive gas it requires. I see from the GTI's ad that you only put 17k miles on a 2010 car. So you're only driving something like 5k miles/year, and as such, fuel economy shouldn't be a big concern for you.
  • I can understand why the GTI was a more pleasurable drive for you than the Impreza. To go from a sporty car with a stick to an Impreza with a CVT is bound to disappoint. The Impreza is a more practical car, but if you were looking to match the GTI's fun factor, well, you made a poor choice. You probably should have traded it in on another GTI with the DSG tranny and 4 doors. Or a WRX would have given you the fun factor and more reliability than the GTI, and could also be purchased with 4 doors and an auto tranny.
I suggest that you sell the Impreza via a private sale out of your own driveway to get more money for it (you should have done the same with your GTI), and then buy the car you really want. When I was buying my Impreza, the Subaru dealership would only offer $16.5k for my TDI in trade. I sold it myself for $22k.

And don't let any car's fuel economy be a major factor in your purchase decision. You drive so little miles/year that it just doesn't make much difference.

Good luck!
Just wanted to say thanks for all the replies and thoughts but I do need to clarify some things. I drive about 14k a year. I had 3 cars.. 97 Buick Skylark, was my grandfathers car (ugly but mint) had only 65k, used that for my DD to commute to work everyday. Had the GTI as fun car to drive to work outside of bad weahter and on weekends and nights, also have a 2012 PW Mustang Boss 302 for show car garaged and strictly for tracking and shows during prestine weather.

September 2012 driving home from work, some J/ASS lilvery driver crossed double yellow line and T-Bones the Buick, they had to total it, Book Value is $3,200 - I now lose my daily driver, was worth so much more to me. So... Now i have to commute in the GTI 6spd, not horrible but can be very annoying in bumper to bumper traffic, 3/4 of my commute is highway and last is in bumper to bumper, coming home a little more bumper to bumper.

Now down to the VW GTI as DD and was almost paid off but will lose warranty this march so I did some research and decided on the Impreza Sprt Lmtd so I could now commute in a car with similar features, ie leather moonroof AWD and an A/T. So I take the insurance money and trade in the VWGTI and my main reason is so I have a brand new car under warranty with AWD, similar refinement/features, and stated/reviewed fabulous MPG's. Problem is, this car does not live up to the advertised MPG's, it is that simple. I was getting 25 mpg on a 97 buick, and getting 31mpg + when driven responsibly in the GTI, same driving habits and same commute. And yes, the GTI took premium but was consistent all year round and to be honest is just a better car IMO. The GTI is prob cheaper to operate b/c the service costs are covered during the warranty period where the Impreza is not.

I was not looking for the same fun factor as the GTI - was actually looking for the opposite, looking for a more practial DD, and since the Impreza Sprt Limted is AWD and offerred many of the refinement features of the GTI and an A/T figured it would fill the need. The problem now is yes, I miss the build quality of the GTI - Cant speak about TDI models but the GTI build quality far surpasses the Impreza IMO, the Impreza feels like a tin can compared to the GTI. And the fact that the Impreza's MPG's are this bad I would have been happier in the GTI.

Yes.. all of the other f/w drive cars suggested would disapoint me, but MPG's were a major factor considered when making my purchase, and I figured if I could get AWD an a/t and the advertised MPG's then I would be doing the right thing for my situation. Problem is, the advertised MPG's for this car are just not accurate. And b/c of that, I would rather have back the GTI since I would have been acheiving the MPG's I need and at least be happier while driving. Dont get me wrong.. In horrible rain (no snow yet) the impreza feels firmly planted, but my overall satisfaction with this car is sub par. I can't stand how the car revs in the morning and watching the MPG's drop like a rock. I feel like all the work I did driving conservatively the day before is just washed away during the first 5 mins of my morning drive. It has really consumed me. No other car I have ever had does this. Heck.. I can get almost 22MPG from my Boss 302 with 444HP.

No matter what I do.. I cannot break 30MPG with this car and I feel violated and lied to b/c I really thought it would fit my needs and was willing to give up performance to have that.... that is my biggest complaint. Yes.. your correct.. the only thing that will make me happy is to get out of thsi car. Gonna take some time, and I want you all to know that if you love your cars, I wish you all the best. I just want/need something different I guess. I see alot of stupid bashing from certain individuals on here.. dont want to be one of them. Just sharing my feelings about my car, If it helps someone then great. Good Luck to all.

And sgoldste01, thanks for posting the most informative and productive information. Your the reason I responded. KooDoos to you!

Last edited by vwgti123; 01-10-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:54 AM   #2841
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The sticker on my CVT says:
City MPG: 27 (Expected range for most drivers: 22 to 32 mpg)
Highway MPG: 36 (Expected range for most drivers: 29 to 43 mpg)

You should really get it looked at if you're not hitting those numbers or learn some hypermiling techniques from fuelly.
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/hemophilic/impreza

Last edited by hemophilic; 01-11-2013 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:17 AM   #2842
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Also, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.shtml
I put in:
- my old car avg mpg ('03 Civic, 30mpg)
- my new car avg mpg ('12 Imp CVT, 27mpg)
- 12k miles per year
- $3.25/gal
- 8 years of ownership

The result is car 1 would save $1156 over 8 years, or $144.50 per year.
Maybe less stress over not hitting an arbitrary number is in order.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:36 AM   #2843
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vwgti123, sorry you don't like your Impreza because of the mileage you're seeing. If you wanted another hatchback that was more of a driver's car that had better fuel economy, I would have suggested a Mazda 3 5-door w/SKYACTIV + 6spd. auto unless the FWD, looks, and lower level of refinement compared to the VW are seriously not to your liking. To be honest, that car would have been my first choice, since Mazdas tend to have a more driver-oriented feel compared to most other Japanese car manufacturers. The local Subaru dealer just happened to have a better deal and I escaped going FWD for a little bit longer (RWD fanboi in da house). I also wish my Mustang got mileage like your 2012 Boss 302 - can barely achieve 18MPG AVG .
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:38 AM   #2844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
The sticker on my CVT says:
City MPG: 27 (Expected range for most drivers: 22 to 32 mpg)
Highway MPG: 36 (Expected range for most drivers: 29 to 43 mpg)

You should really get it looked at if you're not hitting those numbers or learn some hypermiling techniques from fuelly.
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/hemophilic/impreza
One of the drawn out misunderstandings on the Warranty Thread related to MPG's was that the newly redesigned window sticker for 2013 vehicles (all manufacturers, not just Subaru) no longer includes the language related to the "Expected range for most drivers".

The new window stickers do emphasize the Combined Fuel Economy though, even more than the City and Highway numbers, and include the same disclaimer that mileage may vary (in the small print).

2012 Sticker (my car):



2013 Sticker (generic):





View the entire 2013 Window Sticker design here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt1

The EPA numbers are not guarantees, and actual driver experience has revealed that some driving styles and types of driving will cause you to get poorer than expected mileage.

The long and the short of it is the cars have been on the road long enough that other owners have field tested the MPG's, and some drivers of both CVT and 5 Speeds are getting the EPA numbers, and some are not. Almost every driver is within the "Expected range" that was printed on the 2012 Window Sticker. We've also learned that certain drives are going to crap out your MPG's, including short trips starting with a cold engine each time, driving faster than 70mph, hammering the accelerator because you think the car is underpowered, and lots of stop and go bumper to bumper driving. None of these should be a surprise, all cars get worse mileage in these conditions, but apparently with AWD the MPG penalty is higher than expected compared to some other FWD cars (AWD cars are heavier, and have more drivetrain friction, so part of this is due to physics).

So the fact that the EPA redesigned the Window Sticker but the redesigned Impreza went from 2012 to 2013 with no real changes (other than that they all became PZEV) does not mean either label is wrong, or that the "Expected Range" for a 2012 isn't the same for the 2013 Impreza. Changing the print on a label without changing the engine design does not change reality.

And all that being said, Fuelly still shows that most drivers are within the range of Combined Fuel economy printed on all of our labels. The number on Fuelly has been climbing, not falling, as more miles are racked up (as expected, the new engines need to break in before they will deliver EPA numbers).

And Consumer Reports still praises the excellent fuel economy for an AWD vehicle.

And the car still has great resale value.

So if your knickers are still in a bunch, trade it and get something else. FWIW I just noticed the first round of used 2012 Impreza's showing up at a local used car dealer (a dealer that sells a lot of Subaru's, they are quite popular where I live). Maybe your car will end up in a happy home near me.

BTW the asking price for those two used Imprezas: Limited hatch, 8k, $22,980 and Premium hatch, 7k, $19,980

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-17-2013 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:07 AM   #2845
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And you keep ignoring that your spreadsheet using published numbers from Consumer Reports is somewhat irrelevant, given that Consumer Reports tested the CVT, and praises the excellent mileage for an AWD car, and recommends it as a top pick, and for reliability.

But those are facts anyone can verify for themself, from the horses mouth (since we both seem to be using Consumer Reports to bolster our case, let's see what they have to say, unfiltered by either of us):
Zeeper, you are again, or rather still, off the mark. We are not discussing how good of a car it is. We know it's a good car. We are discussing the forthrightness (something you apparently don't understand) of Subaru's claims of the CVT's mpg, which is what we *are in fact* talking about.

And since you don't even have one, you only prove you are acting like a buffoon.

The only way to determine if the Impreza with the CVT (see that? "CVT") compares equitably with the numbers Subaru gave to the EPA is to compare how it does in reality with how it does on the EPA numbers, compared to other vehicles with similar numbers. We have already established it is two standard deviations off from the average of the others. Again, some math you don't apparently understand.

Stick with the 5 speed discussions, and your credibility will improve.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:19 AM   #2846
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Stevehnmdmsht

Please add me to your ignore list. I haven't seen a single instance yet where you have contributed anything of value to this discussion.

Isn't it time for you to dedicate yourself to harassing the EPA or Consumer Reports instead of wasting all this time being redundant and wrong on the NASIOC forum?

You seem not to have realized that the vehicle Consumer Reports tested, and praised for its excellent mileage, was a 2012 Impreza with a CVT.

I put the video up for you, if your internet connection does not allow you to watch it, go to the library and request a hard copy of the Consumer Reports magazine and have someone read it to you.

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-11-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:05 AM   #2847
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
None of these should be a surprise, all cars get worse mileage in these conditions, but apparently with AWD the MPG penalty is higher than expected compared to some other FWD cars (AWD cars are heavier, and have more drivetrain friction, so part of this is due to physics).
I was just thinking the same thing before I read the above section of your post--that our Imprezas are less "forgiving" of driving styles and conditions, and will fall away from the EPA's predictions more rapidly than other cars. To test my theory, I went to Fuelly and compared the 2012 Impreza against the 2012 Civic.

If you look at the Civic's normal distribution, it goes from a low of 28 MPG up to a high of 46 MPG, which is an 18 MPG spread.

If you look at the Impreza's normal distribution, it goes from a low of 22 MPG up to a high of 34 MPG, which is a 12 MPG spread.

Now I'm no statistician, but the tighter spread of the Impreza's MPG distribution (6 MPG tighter, which is statistically huge) seems to prove that the Impreza is less forgiving of driving styles and conditions, and will penalize the driver more aggressively when he deviates from the EPA's test scenarios.

FWIW.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:53 AM   #2848
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Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post

You should really get it looked at if you're not hitting those numbers or learn some hypermiling techniques from fuelly.
Some of these techniques are not realistic. lol
http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hyperm...ecodriving.php
If possible, shop at stores that are higher in elevation than your home. That way the extra weight you pick up (shopping items) is on board for the descending return leg where it's less of a penalty than it would be on an ascending return leg.
How much gas is a bag of vegetables and toilet paper in your trunk really wasting? lol

ALSO

44) The most efficient way to slow down
When you *have* to slow down, here's an approximate heirarchy of methods, from best to worst.

1) coasting in neutral, engine off (ie. roll to a stop);
2) coasting in neutral, engine idling;
3) regenerative coasting (hybrid vehicles)
4) regenerative braking (hybrid vehicles)
5) coasting in "deceleration fuel cut-off" mode (in gear, above a certain engine RPM)
6) conventional friction braking (non-hybrid or hybrid)

i read somewhere that coasting in neutral uses more gas then in gear. Now idk what to believe.

Last edited by myrt1987; 01-11-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:55 AM   #2849
aeoporta
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Dark Gray Mettallic

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Is it me or is everyone just bitching of late?
park brake clunk
MPG

Seriously if the car burnt oil then you have a reason to
bitch, hitting epa numbers and having a disclaimer pretty much leaves your ass out of luck. Sell the damn car already, ship them to the NE we will take them any day

When i am driving through a damn snow storm or when its biting cold common sense dictates that i PAY more attention to the road than my dash showing me my mpg. The same applies to torrential down pours and other road hazards. Most of the complaining smacks 100% of buyers remorse, seriously if you list your car in any northern state it will get bought real quick, hell autotrader is your friend. Have you any idea how far most northerners will drive to get a good subaru that matches our needs especially with the shortages we deal with. heck if i want a mtl subaru I check a 3 to 400 range radius and trust me I will only find maybe 10 if I am lucky. The cvt impreza also is hard to get most ppl like myself had to order their cars. Hell if you go the wrx/sti route most of the times your are ordering cause dealerships can charge some crazy prices just because they are in high demand. Crosstrek also in high demand. If you buy your car from soa then you can easily make a tidy profit, in ny/nj we have to go through sdc, in ne you have to go through soe, these cars get marked up in invoice price from the beginning by the distributor. I implore you all to sell your vehicles because they will sell and given the recent hurricane sandy situation they won't be up for listing for too long.

/rant
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:04 AM   #2850
ans2k
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^i agree. after driving through the snow storm recently, i stopped complaining or caring about mpg. i bought the car for safety and reliability, mpg comes after. i am willing to take a mpg hit for the most important reason for why i got this car.
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