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#1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 304662
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2001 Impreza L coupe Sedona red Pearl |
![]() Do you guys think it would be possible for car engineers to make a CVT manual transmission? No paddle shifter BS, I mean clutch, clutch pedal, shifter, ect. I'm asking you guys because I can't think of how it would work with the "infinite" gear ratios and such. But I just feel like there's got to be a way.
Untill then iIl stick with an MT. I like the Cvt technology, and as it keeps progressing I'm sure it will become more and more appealing. It may even eventually replace the 4&5eat's. Hopefully not manuals though...... I just curious, so any brainstorming or ideas are welcome. Here's my input, the name: CVMT (don't really need to elaborate, lol)
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Last edited by ManualOverAuto; 03-14-2012 at 10:25 PM. |
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#2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 214192
Join Date: Jun 2009
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle:2003 WRX WRB |
![]() Are you stoned?
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#3 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 304662
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2001 Impreza L coupe Sedona red Pearl |
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Unless it's literally impossible and I just don't fully understand CVTs. That can't be the case because way crazier things have been invented. Internet? I bet the person who thought of it was asked the same question you asked me. 1-"hey I got this idea. On computers we could store, create, and look up infinite data at any time." 2-"are you stoned?" |
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#4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72730
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Wayland, MA
Vehicle:2019 Volvo S60 T6-R SPORT CHASSIS |
![]() Ha well you wouldn't need a clutch, no need to disengage the gearbox to change ratios.
It would just be a lever you slide to and fro to change ratio. I am thinking it falls into the "too complicated for manual control" category like an 8 speed manual. Part of the viability if the CVT is electronic control of the ratio. |
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#5 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 304662
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2001 Impreza L coupe Sedona red Pearl |
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I wouldn't really be a true CVT then I guess. It would kinda be like a pedal bike with the gears only using a clutch to change the speeds. It would be a far more lightweight system than gears and syncros and could maybe last longer? Not grinding could really happen and driveline shock could be almost eliminated. When the clutch is pressed the belt/chain would be moved to the next selected gear. Left or right depending on which gear you choose. Although bike gear chains like that do break more than they should, or pop off the gear. Kinda a fail of a thread for me lol :/ |
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#6 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Vehicle:555 Having a Subaru shop means too many cars |
![]() The "torque converter" in all CVT i have played with locks up once the car is in motion, so in effect its an electronic clutch just like the BMW SMG gearbox.
What would be the point of a clutch once the engine and trans are connected? Secondly the Subaru Pleo (if I remember correctly) had a "shifter" that allowed you to control the ratio of the transmission. Still I see no purpose for this. The advantage of a real CVT is that you can tune a SINGLE RPM of the engine for the most power, then have the CVT hold it at that RPM throughout the increase in speed. |
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#7 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 118209
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: North Dakota
Vehicle:2015 WRX Limitec |
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Exactly! A performance CVT isn't going to be one that allows you to manual shift. Right now CVT's are programmed to keep people happy. People like hearing the engine rev up when you step on the gas, and the rpms to increase with speed. That is absolutely not the best use of a CVT, at least with performance in mind. What you should be excited about is ECU programming for a CVT. The ideal situation would be that the ECU controls the engine throttle entirely. There is no point to have that done by the driver. The gas pedal tells the computer how much torque to put down via the CVT. Essentially, imagine whipping around an autocross course with the engine kept at a consistent 5000 rpm. (or whatever #) The ECU would govern the engine at that rpm, and adjust to maintain it. End result is that you have a dyno graph that is more or less flat across the entire range. If you get everything tuned and working together, the performance advantage would be HUGE. |
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#8 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 214192
Join Date: Jun 2009
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle:2003 WRX WRB |
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As for the Internet argument that the OP so eloquently gathered, I'd say the original post would be like attempting to control the complexity of the interwebs through an 1940s-era telephone operator's switchboard. Your subsequent post does nothing to tether the nonsense of the original post. The idea of a clutch or shifter in a CVT directly negates the point of such technology There have been multiple experimental race cars built using CVTs; this is nothing new. They do have a lot of benefit for performance consideration but have absolutely no need for a clutch or much in the way of user input. Simple settings such gas-saver, sport, & race would be sufficient for a great car. |
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#9 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 304662
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2001 Impreza L coupe Sedona red Pearl |
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And stick to your first sentence? No I wasnt "stoned" I was bored at work and thought up a question. What does being stoned have to do with anything either? I smoke, is there a problem? No. All you had to say was "no it's not possible" or quote someone else's reply and say "this^". |
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#10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 214192
Join Date: Jun 2009
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle:2003 WRX WRB |
![]() umadbro?
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#11 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 304662
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2001 Impreza L coupe Sedona red Pearl |
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#12 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 177402
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: Ontario
Vehicle:2018 STI and 08WRx gun metalic |
![]() Just two comments...1) they are not light and there are still clutches and gears.2)You can't get a new Legacy with a 4eat anymore..you get a 5eat with the 3.6d. So eventually I see the 4eat a thing of the past.
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#13 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 410182
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: South Florida, Palm Beach
Vehicle:2014 Impreza Premium Ice Silver Metallic |
![]() I was lead here by a Jalopnik post, but I just wanted to say to the OP that I was thinking the same, well almost, exact thing! No clutch just a lever that could be used when in "manual" mode. Pretty much would just be a rheostat connected to some kind of lever. But I'm so glad I'm not the only "stoned" one here. lol
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#14 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 310769
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Vehicle:2018 WRX, 2002 WRX, 2003 WRX, 2012 Impreza |
![]() There is always risk in speculating about the future but my guess is we will see it someday. I have a 2012 base Impreza with the CVT. I absolutely hate it, but I can imagine the day when they make one that I can control directly and mate it to a turbocharged engine. Seems like it could, theoretically at least, keep everything spooled up and make for a faster car.
But theory aside, never again for the current generation. I don't like mine. The only good things I can say about it are it seems reliable and it allows the wife to drive one of our four Subarus! |
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#15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:EA63 , EA81T, EJ20G, EJ205 |
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#16 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 410182
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: South Florida, Palm Beach
Vehicle:2014 Impreza Premium Ice Silver Metallic |
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![]() The WRX has a CVT. I test drove one and loved it. All spool all the time! What could be better than that?! There is a reason these things are banned from F1. The team that had it was killing it and was unfair to the teams that couldn't afford it. Also, there was a hill climb bike, I wana say in the 70s?..., that was banned because it too dominated the competition. |
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#17 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 310769
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Vehicle:2018 WRX, 2002 WRX, 2003 WRX, 2012 Impreza |
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![]() Maybe I got mine 2 years too soon. |
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#18 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 97043
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Tomball Tejas
Vehicle:08 STI 02 Z28 - project |
![]() They already come with a fancy auto-clutch for perfect shifting. Some call it a torque converter.
Center shifter clearly has reverse labeled R, neutral N, and all of the forward gears labeled D. With the car on, manually operate the center shifter to any of the gears.... gear.... belt? |
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#19 | |||
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 3409
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Oly
Vehicle:98 My FMIC Is bigger than yours. |
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The Justy with a CVT didn't dominate. :sadtrombone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3PF4fPXe9U Here you go. They show animations of the internals in action in this video. This is the smaller CVT that is found in the Impreza/XV/Forester and 2015+ Outbacks, NOT equipped with turbos or 6 cylinders. I'm not sure if it was a 2015 change or 2016, but Subaru got negative feedback from owners about the rubber-band like acceleration. Owners used to traditional automatics didn't care for how the RPMs didn't rise and fall like a normal gearbox shifting, so Subaru changed the logic so it "shifts" now. Last edited by CosmoTheCat; 06-17-2016 at 02:41 AM. |
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