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Old 02-15-2013, 08:35 PM   #1
aboothman
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Default NEW Manley Pistons

...and I am not referring to the shorter skirt and Napier second rings that are standard now. Check page 23 of the Piston section, or page 118 of the Master catalog.

Apparently they now have a 99.55mm piston, as well as an "A" and "B" option!!

612001C-4 for the 99.55

612000CA-1 and 612000CB-1 (only sold individually I guess)

Discuss!!
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #2
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Funny I was on the phone with Jesse @ Manley today. I have to call him back on monday, I'll chat with him about those and post back.

-Phil
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:05 AM   #3
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Nice so we could just hone used blocks to fit these pistons?
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Nice so we could just hone used blocks to fit these pistons?
Maybe, this is more for new case crowd and the after marketengine builders that build with a new case, Ithink this made my decision for me on new short blockbuild
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:19 AM   #5
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Why would it be for the "new case" crowd? It's not like cylinders see that much wear...especially on stock pistons
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:00 AM   #6
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Almost all case halves have a combination of A s and B s . Hence the need for 2 different pistons . Also why drop ins are often noisey.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:32 AM   #7
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Why would it be for the "new case" crowd? It's not like cylinders see that much wear...especially on stock pistons
Maybe not see much wear but being heat cycled will cause the cylinder to become warped or out of round, requiring a over bore/hone.

I generally dont like removing material from a stock cylinder liner. .010 is the max for me. I will not sell a .020 or 100mm overbore on a stock liner period.

Anyway you slice it, a forged slug install needs machine work.

And I will just throw this out there, if you're going to spend xx thousand on your parts for your built motor, when the seller/machinist recommends something and you decide to skip it or go with something cheaper. Just remember, you get what you pay for.

Do your homework. If you're going to spend xxthousand, take half the time it took you to make that money, that you now are going to spend, and research what you're buying.

It really sucks having to clean up other peoples messes.



/rant



-Phil



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Old 02-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #8
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I understand that. Given the sizes of OEM 99.5 pistons, and the right clearances they run, it is entirely possible that the 99.55 pistons will work perfectly on a used block. There is upward of .003" to play with...is it common to have that much wear if there are no scratches to bore/hone out?
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:08 PM   #9
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Someone post a pic!
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:39 PM   #10
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I understand that. Given the sizes of OEM 99.5 pistons, and the right clearances they run, it is entirely possible that the 99.55 pistons will work perfectly on a used block. There is upward of .003" to play with...is it common to have that much wear if there are no scratches to bore/hone out?
Every block will be different, you're talking about used blocks.

The difference between the two pistons is .002

The 99.5 being 3.917 and the 99.55 being 3.919

I guess in a perfect world with no variables sure, but I think that these are more meant for new cases that are going to be honed out anyway, it would be nice to be able to do a fresh hone on a new case and run a nice and tight PTW without having to go to 99.75mm

My .002
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:23 PM   #11
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I am familiar woth basic math...thanks. The difference between the pistons is .002"(actually as low as .0014"), but you still need to take .003" off the larger Manley piston for proper PTW (unless you prefer a slightly tighter it lol). I accounted for the difference in piston size as your PTW clearance after tearing town an oem block. Allowing some meat for a hone of course.

Obviously some will be looser than others, but .004"+? I find that difficult to believe on a block that has not scratched the liners.

The point is moot on a properly done build anyway as the cylinder will be measured prior to purchase of the pistons. I just think it is silly to dismiss their use on used blocks without actually measuring a couple blocks to see if they will work. Hell i have one in my shop right now that these would work on, but I need a different dish.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
I am familiar woth basic math...thanks. The difference between the pistons is .002"(actually as low as .0014"), but you still need to take .003" off the larger Manley piston for proper PTW (unless you prefer a slightly tighter it lol). I accounted for the difference in piston size as your PTW clearance after tearing town an oem block. Allowing some meat for a hone of course.

Obviously some will be looser than others, but .004"+? I find that difficult to believe on a block that has not scratched the liners.

The point is moot on a properly done build anyway as the cylinder will be measured prior to purchase of the pistons. I just think it is silly to dismiss their use on used blocks without actually measuring a couple blocks to see if they will work. Hell i have one in my shop right now that these would work on, but I need a different dish.
I see what you're saying -_-

I have one 2.5 with cracked ringlands in the garage now, I have to tear down. I'll measure out the other three "good" cylinders and see where theyre at.

I a few more laying in there, but they all have been bore/honed already.

-Phil
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Apparently they now have a 99.55mm piston, as well as an "A" and "B" option!!

612001C-4 for the 99.55

612000CA-1 and 612000CB-1 (only sold individually I guess)

Discuss!!
So what would the A and B option be for? The stock 99.5 size?
If yes would that mean theres 3 different 99.5s to chose from?

Do they have the same options for the 2.0 guys?
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:22 PM   #14
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bump!

Last edited by Irv Weissmanhowerton; 02-21-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:29 PM   #15
aboothman
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post

So what would the A and B option be for? The stock 99.5 size?
If yes would that mean theres 3 different 99.5s to chose from?

Do they have the same options for the 2.0 guys?
Yes the A and B options are for a true "drop in" 99.50mm bore setup according to Manley. They put a new tech document and new install instructions on their site in the last week.

You would have to check the catalog for 92mm options as I consider them a waste of time I do not recall seeing one though

These are the directions for their A and B drop ins but it also has the latest ring gap data that, according to the tech, is the latest recommendations for all of their piston/rings. Apparently it is a result of discussion and testing with total seal and a test group.

Manley Data Sheet

This page has the other most recent instructions or their product line

Manley Tech Page

Last edited by aboothman; 03-15-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:26 PM   #16
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I have a low mileage (<20k) 2010 block that measures out decently, I'd like to ball hone it and try these out.

Any idea where to order these from? Direct from Manley?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:11 AM   #17
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I know I might be thread jacking but I do agree with Phil for what it's worth, I'd use these in a fresh block and go to the next size up on use but that is MOP and that doesn't count for much.
My problem is I purchased the 99.75 set and had the machine shop floow the instruction to the letter per Manley, measured the PTWC by their instructions but the pistons don't seem to have enough clearance for their skirts ?
I just picked up the block and pistons from the machine shop and have not had a chance to mic them but for sure the tops fit great but when pushed further into the bore the skirts start to fit tight, has anyone seen this ?
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:02 PM   #18
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I think I know where the machine went wrong, they didn't take their measurments from dead center on the piston .800 down from the oil ring, I think they looked at the drawing and thought you take the measurement closer to the wrist pin area.

I'll know more tonight and post up for all the read, if anyone cares. Thought it might help if another person gets it wrong, if that's the case.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:55 PM   #19
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My instructions said to measure from 1 inch below the oil ring which is pretty much the bottom of the skirt
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:00 PM   #20
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When I was there and not thinking about it till I was on the phone with Tom from Manley today that the tech who was mic'ing my pistons held the piston so that when he took his measurement he was taking it more on the side by the wrist pin then in the middle or center of the two wrist pins like you should, I sure you know what I'm trying to explain.

That had to be why there's an issue with the tops going in the holes but the skirts sticking, I'll check tonight but it worries me if that is the reason that they didn't know better than that but from what Tom says that would be the only way this could happen.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:14 PM   #21
aboothman
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Ya that would make sense. All of the Manley instructions I have say 1 inch from bottom oil ring like I mentioned, which is almost bottom of the skirt. My machinist got it right and hit the .003-.0035 I was looking for....with torque plate Minimal taper too...within OEM spec.

It is, after all, the biggest part of the piston. JE says to measure .5" up from bottom of skirt FYI.

Anyway Keep in mind Manley also says to gap rings 1" down the cylinder. They also changed their specs last week to open up the ring gap a bit. I think I posted it a few posts up.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #22
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Found the problem, when I measured the pistons last night and the cylinders I had .0007/.0008 PTWC and if they would have looked at the instruction sheet and not the photo they would've seen that it calls out for taking your measurements at 1.100 below the oil ring.
So I took them back this morning to have them done correctly, at least it wasn't the other way around, you can always take away more metal but it would be tough to put any back.

The rings on a Manley are another issue you could screw up if you don't read their build sheet. I'm use to gapping the top ring tighter than the second but Manley does it the other way around, I assume the top of their piston needs more room ?
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:49 PM   #23
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Their latest specs say to do em the same. Give Manley East a call and talk to one of their techs

Last edited by aboothman; 03-26-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:20 PM   #24
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I'm glad you wrote that since I've question the rings being gapped losser on the top and tighter on the second, thanks for the heads up and I'll call for sure.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:38 PM   #25
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NP just passing on what i know. Meant to put Manley East BTW they handle all import stuff
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