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Old 11-17-2015, 11:08 AM   #1
Pre
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Default Volkswagen Can't Keep up with Sales

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Old 11-17-2015, 11:29 AM   #2
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Incentives outweigh ideology

I am shocked LOL
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:40 AM   #3
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The dealer I bought my R from was very busy and it was the middle of the week. If their cars were killing people I suspect they would not be so busy, but this is Merica, we have cheap gas here so what's a little diselgate...
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Old 11-17-2015, 12:58 PM   #4
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To read:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...s-are-selling/

It wouldn't be crazy to assume Volkswagen dealers would be struggling to sell cars in the wake of the company's diesel emissions scandal. It's been several months since the news broke, millions of cars are affected, and it feels like every week we find out that it's even worse than we initially thought.

But in actuality, that would be a wrong assumption.

As ​Automotive News​ reports, many dealers are running into the problem of not having enough cars to sell. The number of Volkswagen vehicles on dealer lots is at its lowest point in years—​enough for only a 48-day supply. That's 20 fewer days of inventory than it has at this time last year.

What makes that number even more surprising is that it includes all the diesel vehicles still on dealer lots that can't legally be sold. The supply of salable vehicles is even smaller.

Despite the negative attention generated by the diesel scandal, sales have increased thanks to Volkswagen offering a large number of incentives on its gasoline models and giving a $2000 loyalty discount to current owners. The heavy discounts made for an excellent October but has left dealers dry heading into the last two months of the year.

One dealer in South Carolina says he sold 40 Passats last month, which left him with only three still on the lot until he gets 10 more sometime around mid-month. Another dealer in Colorado says he had to rely on dealer trades to sell Passats in October because he was entirely out.

Even the Tiguan, typically a slow seller for Volkswagen, did well. In fact, it had its best month ever.

Volkswagen has promised dealers it will make up the inventory, but allocations are already set until December. That means November will be a tight month for a lot of dealerships.

Then again, there are worse problems to have than selling cars faster than Volkswagen can deliver them. Like, for instance, having a bunch of diesel cars that you can't sell taking up space on your lot.
It appears a lot of us here had the same thoughts...vultures!
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Old 11-17-2015, 01:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Incentives outweigh ideology

I am shocked LOL
To be fair, I think a lot of people assume that VW will fix it for free later down the road. Like thill said, if it was a deadly issue it would be different, but for now, pick up a cheap car and get fixes for free later.
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:05 PM   #6
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I am interested in seeing how it is enforced here in MN. My state does not require emissions testing, so even if VW offers a fix I am not sure if the state will push for the fix and what the punishment might be. I suppose they could track it through the dealer but the state may simply not care when there so many worse emitting vehicles on the road.
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
The dealer I bought my R from was very busy and it was the middle of the week. If their cars were killing people I suspect they would not be so busy, but this is Merica, we have cheap gas here so what's a little diselgate...
If the average consumer really cared about emissions there wouldn't be near the amount of full size pickup trucks and SUV's on the road. North Americans simply don't care all that much about what's exiting their tail pipe as long as they are driving a nice car for a good deal.
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:44 PM   #8
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yup...
Pretty much..
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:09 PM   #9
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As they say Money talks....
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Old 11-17-2015, 04:30 PM   #10
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Default Volkswagen Can't Keep up with Sales

Trust me...I've already stopped by the dealer to try and work out some kind of TDI trade-in deal and order a Golf R.

Ironically, if I traded the car in at the Ford dealership across the street, they could sell used TDI models.
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
I am interested in seeing how it is enforced here in MN. My state does not require emissions testing, so even if VW offers a fix I am not sure if the state will push for the fix and what the punishment might be. I suppose they could track it through the dealer but the state may simply not care when there so many worse emitting vehicles on the road.
I doubt they'll choose to force owners to perform the modifications, but if they did it would be easy to enforce through registration. The state gets VIN numbers from VW and sends owners a letter that says something like "you will not be allowed to register your car after XXX date unless you provide proof to DVS that modifications have been performed." Again, I doubt they'll force people, but the fact that we don't have emissions testing is not really an impediment.

And, yea. Cynicism of human nature confirmed by great VW sales numbers.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
I doubt they'll choose to force owners to perform the modifications, but if they did it would be easy to enforce through registration. The state gets VIN numbers from VW and sends owners a letter that says something like "you will not be allowed to register your car after XXX date unless you provide proof to DVS that modifications have been performed." Again, I doubt they'll force people, but the fact that we don't have emissions testing is not really an impediment.



And, yea. Cynicism of human nature confirmed by great VW sales numbers.

Good points. If the state did force it it would be rather ironic considering somebody in an old rusted out diesel truck would get a free pass...
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
To be fair, I think a lot of people assume that VW will fix it for free later down the road. Like thill said, if it was a deadly issue it would be different, but for now, pick up a [initially inexpensive] car and get fixes for free later.
Fixed. TCO prices, lol.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:01 PM   #14
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News Volkswagen brand sales dip in wake of scandal

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FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) — Volkswagen's flagship brand saw global auto sales fall 5.3 percent in October in the wake of a scandal over cars equipped with software that let them cheat on U.S. diesel emissions tests.

It appeared that economic downturns in Brazil and Russia caused as much or more damage than the scandal to the month's figures. Volkswagen has been trying to limit sales damage in the United States by offering existing Volkswagen owners $2,000 off if they trade their old car in for a new VW model.

Figures released Friday showed sales in the U.S. — where the scandal first broke on Sept. 18 — were up 0.2 percent. Sales in North America including Canada rose 3.5 percent from the same month a year earlier.

Sales fell 26 percent in Russia and 50 percent in Brazil.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency says Volkswagen equipped 482,000 cars with software that turned off emissions controls and enhanced performance when the cars were not being tested.

The company says up to 11 million cars have the deceptive software, and adds that it has uncovered "irregularities" in measurements of how much carbon dioxide the cars emit. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas blamed by scientists for global warming, and faces increasingly strict limits in Europe.

For all of Volkswagen's brands — which also include SEAT, Skoda, Porsche, Audi and Lamborghini — global sales fell 3.5 percent to 831,3000 in October compared with a year earlier.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...p-wake-scandal
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:29 PM   #15
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Did dieselgate really make that big of a difference as far as diesel sales were concerned as a fraction of total overall VW sales in the US? Gas prices have been low for months now and the last time I was at the gas station, diesel cost more than gas. I would have to imagine diesel cars weren't exactly flying off the shelves before the scandal.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:51 PM   #16
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Sure there are some who are seizing on buying a VW -- in the short run. Have talked to friends who are LONG term, repeat VW diesel owners, and they are saying never again. Six weeks into the emissions cheat, values of their diesels were down 13.5%. Now nine weeks into this scandal, and VW diesel prices are down 18.5%. In the last three weeks, VW announced that they would give current owners a $500 debit card to spend anyway, another $500 one to only spent at the VW's dealership.

So in the last nine weeks, the value of one of my friend's used $25,000 VW diesel, which had that value on Septemer 11th (the day before this debacle broke), dropped to $21,625 at the six week point (beginning of this month), then VW announced they are going to give him $1,000 recompense, and now on November 18th, his car is worth $20,325 -- a further drop of $1,300 during this time when VW's says, "we will give you $1,000 for your troubles."

And let us remember that for those who go in and get the "no sooner than the end of 2016 fix" to their VW diesels, that fix will give them less power and worse fuel economy.

Sure there are some short term cash-opportunists at VW dealers and some excited about the Golf R traffic going there, but what about the 26% of VW buyers who currently own a diesel and are being financially screwed by the above.

And did you notice that today, another 400,000 VW/VW brand vehicles, mostly gas powered, were additionally found to be way out of C02 compliance.

We are now at over 12,000,000 VW/VW related-brand cars that are going to need to be fixed, and that alone will not be cheap, let alone the already 350 law suits already filed in this country, last week's first actual country-levied fine ($13,000,000 by Brazil), and this downward spiral is so far from reaching bottom yet.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:55 PM   #17
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...or, they don't fix them, and just pay a huge fine.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:53 AM   #18
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It's not surprising that there are contrarian investor type people that saw the bad news as an opportunity to beat the market. Combined that with the aggressive incentives, this isn't hugely surprising. The real question is what the picture will look like by this time next year. There are only so many contrarians and VW can't throw in huge incentives all year. And what about the uber important launch of the new Tiguan? Will there be still a lot of bad press by then? Probably.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:06 AM   #19
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Hyundai got caught cheating on EPA MPG testing and their sales increased as well. People have very short term memory especially if they think they are getting a good deal on a car.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:16 AM   #20
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They got caught cheating emissions. Not faulty air bags, not faulty brakes, and not tires that explode. No real reason to hold a grudge over a couple mpg.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX John View Post
Sure there are some who are seizing on buying a VW -- in the short run. Have talked to friends who are LONG term, repeat VW diesel owners, and they are saying never again....
So much this. That 100+ page megathread on tdiclub is ample evidence. VW is just lucky their American diesel strategy wasn't more successful. They may sell more diesels here than anyone else, but it's still a small proportion of their sales mix.

Alienating your brand opinion leaders is not smart.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:42 AM   #22
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In the end, the single most important thing to remember about the automotive market is this.

PRODUCT RULES ALL

If the tiguan is good, it will sell. The Golf is an amazingly good product, and it is selling
People care about products, not regulations. A good car at a good price will FAR outweigh any amount of ppm to the VAST majority of people. IF VW released a 2016 VW diesel that complies with emissions (I mean actually complies, lol) at a good price, this will be over in 24 months. It will be a bad memory.

Remember when ford Explorers were spontaneously catching fire in the peoples garages due to a bad fuse or something. It was in all the news. Then nothing.

People do not hold grudges forever. They wont here. GM knowingly KILLED almost 200 people. Not inconvenienced them. Not cost them 1mpg in efficiency. They flat out KILLED them and they still did not fix it until over a decade later. And they bought their way out of litigation for a paltry sum of 900M.

What VW did is nothing by comparison. Yeah, they cheated. Shame on them. This will vanish. I assure you if in the next 3 years, they release some epic products.

PRODUCT RULES ALL
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:47 AM   #23
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The reality is the car market is massive and most people have short term memory when it comes to issues and they will buy the car they feel is the best value for them. Even if 100-200 people on an internet forum are very vocal about a particular brand or model it will have little to no impact to a brand if they make cars that the masses want.

Most people buy a car as an appliance and are not emotionally invested in their cars like people who particpate on car forums. NASIOC is a good example. When the 2015 STI was announced as being sedan only, with the EJ engine, and with the styling Subaru gave it you would have thought the car would be a dud. "Looks like a souped up Camry". "The engine is a POS". "No hatch, no sale", etc. The WRX also took similar heat for styling, the CVT, lack of hatch, etc. Sales numbers do not reflect the negative posts at all. Subaru knew what they were doing and made a car that appealed to a larger group of people.

If VW makes cars people want and prices them right, they will be fine. Even if thousands of upset diesel owners don't come back to the brand there is enough marketshare to steal from other manufacturers it won't matter.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:51 AM   #24
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Exactly Scrappy. And I am not condoning what VW did. They are going to pay for it. But in the world of 247x365 news and issues we are dealing with right now, this will be largely forgotten in a year or less.
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:07 AM   #25
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Most people don't Know who is the Vice President. What wheels are propelling thier car. So diesel gate will not stop them from buying. Just like the air bags, faulty ignition and gas pedal fiasco.
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