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Old 03-15-2017, 08:39 PM   #1
jtanner62388
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Default Fa20 crank pulley on EZ30R

This has probably been asked before but does anyone know if an fa20 crank pulley will fit on an ez30r? I have an 08 llbean 3.0r outback and since they make almost nothing engine wise for it I was wondering if a lightweight crank pulley for an fa20 would fit considering the fa20 and ez30r use a single belt pulley and the engine are similar design. Any info would be appreciated thanks guys.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:01 PM   #2
PA-Outback2000
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most likely not. completely different engine designs.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:51 AM   #3
Charlie-III
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I would look up each pulley part number on an online place like RockAuto to see if they match, that at least gives you an idea.

BTW, there is little gain going to a light pulley.
1-small diameter, almost no inertial loss
2-overall, not much weight to start with

A good gain is swapping out a OEM 23lb or so flywheel for a 12lb or so flywheel. It's half the weight and 4-5 times the diameter.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:12 PM   #4
PA-Outback2000
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I had a nice "improvement" with my crank pulley. it is not a power adder, but frees up power lost to turning the 5lb oem pulley. light pulleys are usually around 1lb, so saving 4lbs of rotating mass directly on the crank is definitely a good thing.

Subaru P/N are sometimes irrelevant in that the outback and legacy may share the same exact part physically, but have different P/N's in the Subaru system.
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Old 04-01-2017, 01:21 PM   #5
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
I had a nice "improvement" with my crank pulley. it is not a power adder, but frees up power lost to turning the 5lb oem pulley. light pulleys are usually around 1lb, so saving 4lbs of rotating mass directly on the crank is definitely a good thing.

Subaru P/N are sometimes irrelevant in that the outback and legacy may share the same exact part physically, but have different P/N's in the Subaru system.
I suggested a "generic parts warehouse" not a Subaru dealer, RockAuto is one example.
Once you bring the part up, click on the PN, it will tell you what car brand, model and Years the part fits. It will NOT tell you the engines, so you have to compare PN's.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
I would look up each pulley part number on an online place like RockAuto to see if they match, that at least gives you an idea.

BTW, there is little gain going to a light pulley.
1-small diameter, almost no inertial loss
2-overall, not much weight to start with

A good gain is swapping out a OEM 23lb or so flywheel for a 12lb or so flywheel. It's half the weight and 4-5 times the diameter.
EZ30 is auto only.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikman View Post
EZ30 is auto only.
I was not suggesting the swap, I was giving an example of weight reduction that can be really felt and does something.
A light pulley would be hard to measure on a dyno.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:18 AM   #8
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Cool Lightweight crank pulley a bad idea. Statement, not a question.

Good morning. This is my first post/response so be gentle.
I'm bad with names, first of all, so I will reply to those that came before me.
1- I agree wholeheartedly any of the h6 engines, in America, besides the svx were automatic transmission only. Other countries always get the better stuff.
2 - I agree entirely that the lightweight crank pulley is a bad idea. The most important points are this. If you google lightweight crank pulley, on youtube, and look for particularly RELIABILITY, and videos from reputable after market shops, you will realize what is going on. The abridged version is, a lightweight pulley is just that, literally lightweight. Does your vehicle need a regular weight pulley? Yes! Why? For one, the manufacturer has spent probably billions of dollars at this point, since the point of conception, testing what is best for their vehicles. If it was ever a good idea, the performance model (wrx sti) would for sure have a lightweight pulley. Does it? It has a LIGHTER pulley, but not a 'lightweight' pulley. Older models pulley weighs approximately 10 pounds. I can get a cheap aftermarket pulley that weighs about 1 pound. Should I? No. Why?

Do you like your car to start? Do you like your a/c to function correctly? Think about what is attached to that pulley. Your alternator charges off the weight (inertia) from that pulley. Without that, your alternator will charge less, and eventually either fail, or your battery will fail.

With my current car, I had both the alternator and battery both fail within 48 hours. Extremely difficult to diagnose.

Your a/c compressor (at least mine) is also attached to this pulley. So, yes, obvious performance gains here. The question is, 'quicker' acceleration, or 'quicker' cold air inside the cabin.

I don't think you purchased your model subaru to live in the flintstone age. So, a/c it up.

3 - common myths. Power. You will get more. Actually no. What is true, is from the factory, the bhp stays the same. This is break horse power, which is measured at the transmission, before the differentials, etc. Then there's whp, wheel horsepower. What is true, is with a lightweight pulley, or other means of changing/upgrading parts, is your bhp will stay the same, but your whp will increase. This is because you are reducing the drag/resistance to the wheels.

Commonly (open for debate) a typical math calculation is a reduction in 25 percentage, compared to bhp (factory rated power) and power actually put down at the wheels (dyno test).

4 - better ways to do it.
If you have a manual, this is what I would do.
The affordable way, is if you don't have an h6, and you do have a manual, work on a partial wrx/sti swap.

You can swap to a lighter flywheel (this is safe and reliable), and this will increase the wheel horse power. A lightweight clutch is also a great idea. There are many options out there. It literally depends on how intense you are, how often you drive in normal traffic (read, rush hour), how often you race your car (at the track of course etc.

You can also upgrade to a lighter drivetrain. From the factory, steel is typically the option of choice.

Concerns - if you do any off roading AT ALL - do not upgrade/replace the drivetrain with anything but steel. Dirt, sticks, rocks, frozen snow, ice, etc will be thrown up into the drivetrain. Steel is the only one that can take the abuse. A way around this is to fabricate a drivetrain skidplate. Kind of a waste, it seems, to me.

Whatever you do, only do 2 of the 4 things listed:
lightweight crank pulley
lightweight performance clutch
lightweight performance flywheel
aluminum or carbon fiber drivetrain

Why only two? At the minimum, you will throw a check engine light and your engine will start behaving weird. At the maximum, you'll start breaking parts.

Think about it, and this is confirmed information, all of it, I've been on dozens of websites, talked to many of my friends who have upgraded parts etc.

As far as the cost and performance gains, I personally think a lightweight performance clutch and performance flywheel is the way to go.

Any other questions, comments. If any of this was incorrect, please correct me.

To the best of my ability, everything is true and accurate.

Have a great day!

Anthony
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
I would look up each pulley part number on an online place like RockAuto to see if they match, that at least gives you an idea.

BTW, there is little gain going to a light pulley.
1-small diameter, almost no inertial loss
2-overall, not much weight to start with

A good gain is swapping out a OEM 23lb or so flywheel for a 12lb or so flywheel. It's half the weight and 4-5 times the diameter.
Perfect! That's what I suggested, a wrx or sti oem clutch/flywheel. Or aftermarket performance lightweight clutch/flywheel.

Anthony
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:35 PM   #10
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Smith... some of your points are valid. i have had my lightweight pulley on for around 10yrs with not one issue. they have been used numerous times on high-power cars with no issue as well. is your info just "from youtube and friends with aftermarket parts" or actual experience with said parts?

the accessory belts drive the accessories. the pulley weight is not the issue here, it is rpm. some companies sell underdriven crank pulleys which are smaller than oem. getting one that's too small could cause issues with alternator, etc. your considence of failures could be attributed to many factors. did you have a lightweight pulley on when this happened?

comment #3 is a little off... no, a lightweight pulley doesn't increase power, it reduces the work needed to turn and rev-up the engine, thereby increasing the power transmission efficiency.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:49 AM   #11
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
Smith... some of your points are valid. i have had my lightweight pulley on for around 10yrs with not one issue. they have been used numerous times on high-power cars with no issue as well. is your info just "from youtube and friends with aftermarket parts" or actual experience with said parts?

the accessory belts drive the accessories. the pulley weight is not the issue here, it is rpm. some companies sell underdriven crank pulleys which are smaller than oem. getting one that's too small could cause issues with alternator, etc. your considence of failures could be attributed to many factors. did you have a lightweight pulley on when this happened?

comment #3 is a little off... no, a lightweight pulley doesn't increase power, it reduces the work needed to turn and rev-up the engine, thereby increasing the power transmission efficiency.

Agreed.

I cringe at number 3.
If a light flywheel is OK, why is a light crank pulley not OK, the 2 are on either end of the same crankshaft.

Light pullies or flywheels do not "make" power, they reduce the inertial loads so that the resulting increase in acceleration is the equivalent of an amount of power.
To add power you have to add air, add fuel, raise compression. Light rotating parts free up existing power to be used for n moving the car.

Smith did a nicely written post, but I don't really agree with some points.

PS, CHP is like the old US gross HP, this is the power from an engine in a dyno stand. Early 70's the US went to SAE net which adds in engine accessories and trans giving about a 25% drop in listed power.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:30 PM   #12
smithant83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
Smith... some of your points are valid. i have had my lightweight pulley on for around 10yrs with not one issue. they have been used numerous times on high-power cars with no issue as well. is your info just "from youtube and friends with aftermarket parts" or actual experience with said parts?

the accessory belts drive the accessories. the pulley weight is not the issue here, it is rpm. some companies sell underdriven crank pulleys which are smaller than oem. getting one that's too small could cause issues with alternator, etc. your considence of failures could be attributed to many factors. did you have a lightweight pulley on when this happened?

comment #3 is a little off... no, a lightweight pulley doesn't increase power, it reduces the work needed to turn and rev-up the engine, thereby increasing the power transmission efficiency.
You make some good points, some things I didn't think of.

I may not be clear when I say, it increases wheel horsepower, not break horse power. This is because it reduces the drag/friction/intertia, whatever adjective you would like to use.

It does not increase 'engine power', as this requires modification to the engine, exhaust, etc.

As a rough example, because I don't do well with vague comments, and I have been vague thus far.

If a vehicle is rated at 200hp, from the factory, popular calculations typically reduced 25 percent from this number, to arrive at the wheel horsepower in a typical all wheel drive vehicle. So then the wheel horsepower would be roughly calculated at 175 whp.

My point is, when you go to a lightweight clutch or flywheel, it reduces the restriction in inertia, if you will, to actual applicable power to the wheels. So instead of 25 percent, you might see 22 percent, or whatever.

I will yield my comments about a lightweight pulley, as it's obvious you guys know more than me.

I am the first to admit when I am wrong/don't have complete information.

It is an interesting thought about a smaller diameter crank pulley. That's a dangerous thought.

Anthony
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:35 PM   #13
smithant83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Agreed.

I cringe at number 3.
If a light flywheel is OK, why is a light crank pulley not OK, the 2 are on either end of the same crankshaft.

Light pullies or flywheels do not "make" power, they reduce the inertial loads so that the resulting increase in acceleration is the equivalent of an amount of power.
To add power you have to add air, add fuel, raise compression. Light rotating parts free up existing power to be used for n moving the car.

Smith did a nicely written post, but I don't really agree with some points.

PS, CHP is like the old US gross HP, this is the power from an engine in a dyno stand. Early 70's the US went to SAE net which adds in engine accessories and trans giving about a 25% drop in listed power.
Charlie this is interesting information. I really try to think with metric terms, as most of the world uses that for data.

You mentioned crank horsepower is similar to bhp?
Is there another term for wheel horsepower that I'm not familiar with? Lol.

I interpret wheel horse power as, literally power put to the wheels, on a dyno. After the differentials, etc. Physical power put to the ground.

Just making sure I'm clear on some terms.

Thoughts?

Anthony
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Old 05-11-2017, 04:35 PM   #14
PA-Outback2000
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wheel HP is correct term.

automatics have a driveline loss of roughly 25-30%, manuals are around 20%. different dyno manufacturers have different paramteres, so what you make on branx X will probably be different of brand Y dyno. when we say "dyno", it is generally assumed we mean the dyno a full car is strapped to. we say "engine dyno" when testing on the engine alone is referenced
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