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Old 12-16-2014, 12:04 AM   #226
STifyed42
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
...an rx8 motor isn't even in the same galaxy as an sti motor

yer gunna do something stupid If ya not careful
Thanks captain obvious. Though they may not be, they're still combustion engines based on the same principals. Aside from that & pointing out I'm getting a WRX not an STi (then again those two engines are in the same "solar system") I'm too star struck that the impotent, I mean omnipotent, uncle scotty has blessed me with his opinion to respond further.
p.s.
I also stick bananas in my tailpipes for their potassium content.

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Old 12-16-2014, 01:24 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by STifyed42 View Post
Thanks captain obvious. Though they may not be, they're still combustion engines based on the same principals. Aside from that & pointing out I'm getting a WRX not an STi (then again those two engines are in the same "solar system") I'm too star struck that the impotent, I mean omnipotent, uncle scotty has blessed me with his opinion to respond further.
p.s.
I also stick bananas in my tailpipes for their potassium content.

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where DO these idiots COME FROM
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:05 AM   #228
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Lol how is a rotary based in the same principles as a piston engine?

It's metal and goes vrroooooommmmm better do some dumb **** to it for no reason
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:15 AM   #229
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Let's see, there's fuel/air intake, compression, combustion, exhaust, repeat. Do you not know the definition of the word principle? Ass hats. Hope your enjoying pushing each other's s**t.

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Old 12-16-2014, 02:23 AM   #230
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principle
[prin-suh-puh l] Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct:
a person of good moral principles.
2.
a fundamental, primary, or general law or truth from which others are derived:
the principles of modern physics.
3.
a fundamental doctrine or tenet; a distinctive ruling opinion:
the principles of the Stoics.
4.
principles, a personal or specific basis of conduct or management:
to adhere to one's principles; a kindergarten run on modern principles.
5.
guiding sense of the requirements and obligations of right conduct:
a person of principle.
6.
an adopted rule or method for application in action:
a working principle for general use.
7.
a rule or law exemplified in natural phenomena, the construction or operation of a machine, the working of a system, or the like:
the principle of capillary attraction.
Expand
Really "principle" refers more to how something is accomplished rather than what is being accomplished. Pretty much the opposite of what you are saying.

Last edited by Celery GT-5; 12-16-2014 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:46 AM   #231
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Let's see, there's fuel/air intake, compression, combustion, exhaust, repeat. Do you not know the definition of the word principle? Ass hats. Hope your enjoying pushing each other's s**t.

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d000000000000d....

seriously

don't wanna see ya **** up yer nice new rig......


some of us d000000000ds been d000in this for a WAY long time and have learned a thing or 10 about what's what and why

if somebody wants to p00-p00 all that and be stupid

well....you can lead a n000b to the oil aisle, but ya cant make him buy the RIGHT stuff or do the right thing

because....ya know...they KNOW better

and THEN we hear the cry stories about blah-blah-blah....happens all the time


and what works for a rotary will NOT work for a piston engine.....in this galaxy anyway
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:58 AM   #232
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No I am investing my money in oil specifically formulated for breaking an engine in & assisting in properly seating the pistons in the cylinder to prevent reduction in compression and thus power. I'm not worried about consumption. After two 750 mi changes with the break in oil, I'll throw in synthetic, and ride that out for 3-5K. Changing an oil filter out after 5 -10 miles I feel may be a waste if money. How much contaminates could possibly have filled up the filter after so few miles, hence my question. Sent from my HTC6525LVW using NASIOC mobile app
Stop OVERTHINKING... and drive it. Do lots of full throttle pulls full with full coast down, in the mid-range of rpm. Do 10 firm stops, with some cooling between, to bed in the brake pads/rotors... go a bit easy on the tires for the first 100 miles...then enjoy.

Most people do NOTHING SPECIAL for break in, and the car still works just fine...
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Old 12-16-2014, 03:20 PM   #233
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Amen.
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:01 PM   #234
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how many UOAs actually in this thread? well, here's another one. not sure WTF happened here but i was running AmsOil XL 5w-30 and ran it for just over 4k miles to see how it would hold up in the viscosity department.



Viscosity seems on the thick side of a 20 weight oil; it's fallen below spec for 30W oil but they're saying that may have do with fuel dilution. Would be good to know for sure. That said, it held up better than the factory fill did. Factory fill was at 7.5, this is 8.6 after twice as many miles. Probably a better choice than factory fill...is about all i got out of this. I put XL back in my car for this next run and will do another UOA at 4 or 5k. Will probably switch to AmsOil SS so i can run the whole 6K interval or slightly longer.

Last edited by quantum13; 12-17-2017 at 06:22 PM. Reason: fix image link
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:06 PM   #235
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the factory fill is intentionally thin I think
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:22 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
waste of time

screw the dealer oil changes, just more chance of idiots ****ing up your car
something uncle scotty and I can agree on. i can do a change faster than it takes for me to drive there and back, and i know i won't screw it up
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:25 PM   #237
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the factory fill is intentionally thin I think
maybe so but not sure they can call it a 30w oil if it's below 9.3...and after 2k miles it sure as heck was. problem is that we don't have starting data on any of this stuff.
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:43 PM   #238
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Thanks for the UOA, quantum. Your post makes it UOA # 4.

There is some serious fuel in there! Do you idle a lot or drive a lot of short trips?
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:44 PM   #239
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I think its some sort of 20 weight conventional
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:37 PM   #240
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low viscosity from that amsoil report looks to be from the fuel dilution.

elevated metals could be remnants of break-in still.

just thinking out loud.
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:38 PM   #241
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Default 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

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Originally Posted by quantum13 View Post
how many UOAs actually in this thread? well, here's another one. not sure WTF happened here but i was running AmsOil XL 5w-30 and ran it for just over 4k miles to see how it would hold up in the viscosity department.



Viscosity seems on the thick side of a 20 weight oil; it's fallen below spec for 30W oil but they're saying that may have do with fuel dilution. Would be good to know for sure. That said, it held up better than the factory fill did. Factory fill was at 7.5, this is 8.6 after twice as many miles. Probably a better choice than factory fill...is about all i got out of this. I put XL back in my car for this next run and will do another UOA at 4 or 5k. Will probably switch to AmsOil SS so i can run the whole 6K interval or slightly longer.

Something isn't right. The viscosity is not a problem, per se, as it is typical for a GF5 oil to shear to a 20 grade. But the low viscosity is also due to the high fuel dilution. What are your driving conditions like? Lots of short trips? Any mods?

And the lead is high but Subaru bearings are now silver (unless they went back to lead). The ZDDP shown on the uoa is impossible for Amsoil XL.

Maybe the sample was contaminated but something is very wrong here. Potassium can indicate a coolant problem (although sodium is low). Off the top of my head, iron and lead seem even high for break-in but you can search for some factory fill uoa's.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 12-22-2014 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:45 PM   #242
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Something isn't right. The viscosity is not a problem, per se, as it is typical for a GF5 oil to shear to a 20 grade. But the low viscosity is also due to the high fuel dilution. What are your driving conditions like? Lots of short trips? Any mods?

And the lead is high but Subaru bearings are now silver. The ZDDP shown on the uoa is impossible for Amsoil XL.

Maybe the sample was contaminated but something is very wrong here.

-Dennis
after looking at his first sample that he sent to Blackstone, both Lead and Iron show increases, which doesnt seem to fit with break in metals washing out.

contamination is a solid guess.

quantum, how did you take this sample?
hot? cold?
straight from the stream?
from the middle of an old, used container after draining?
from a dip stick pump?

I always take my samples HOT, immediately after driving on the highway for 15-20mins. I also take my sample from the middle of the stream while it is draining.

for future sampling, I'm going to use a dipstick pump (the one from BS), and will only use it on my car to avoid contamination as much as possible.
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:48 PM   #243
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I would follow the lab's advice and sample at half interval.
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:38 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
low viscosity from that amsoil report looks to be from the fuel dilution.

elevated metals could be remnants of break-in still.

just thinking out loud.
yes, from speaking to some other folks you are on point in both cases
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:44 PM   #245
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after looking at his first sample that he sent to Blackstone, both Lead and Iron show increases, which doesnt seem to fit with break in metals washing out.

contamination is a solid guess.

quantum, how did you take this sample?
hot? cold?
straight from the stream?
from the middle of an old, used container after draining?
from a dip stick pump?

I always take my samples HOT, immediately after driving on the highway for 15-20mins. I also take my sample from the middle of the stream while it is draining.

for future sampling, I'm going to use a dipstick pump (the one from BS), and will only use it on my car to avoid contamination as much as possible.

car was hot but i waited a bit to make it bearable. took it straight from the stream into the collection container but due to a minor challenge with the drain plug getting in the way of the drain on my oil collector, i didn't get to take the sample until the oil had already drained more than halfway. when it's hot, it comes FAST! in any case, i dont see how contamination would be possible since it went straight from engine to sample jar.

i took the sample last friday evening so i guess i had just come from work but that's alot of traffic lights and stop and go. i get pissed on the last part of my drive home most of the time so i bet i floored it alot. the combination of hauling ass to clear stoplights only to sit at the next one (don't judge) might have something to do with that. still...the fuel just seems crazy high. i hope i don't have some impending engine trouble waiting for me.

part of my problem is that i can't really compare my two UOAs because different labs did them. there is a good chance my wear metals ARE lower but the difference in labs shows it being higher, for example. I spoke with an AmsOil rep on the FB group and the additive package he predicted ahead of time would look like this.

so i guess really my main concern is the fuel. i feel certain the oil is good for longer than 4k miles and that the viscosity would be fine if i didn't have the fuel issue. i will be changing to AmsOil SS anyway after i get enough data points on XL.

i don't really know what to do at this point but i guess taking another sample in a thousand miles just for the hell of it wouldn't be such a bad idea. any good ideas for how to pull a sample when you're not doing a change?

Last edited by quantum13; 12-22-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:48 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Something isn't right. The viscosity is not a problem, per se, as it is typical for a GF5 oil to shear to a 20 grade. But the low viscosity is also due to the high fuel dilution. What are your driving conditions like? Lots of short trips? Any mods?

And the lead is high but Subaru bearings are now silver (unless they went back to lead). The ZDDP shown on the uoa is impossible for Amsoil XL.

Maybe the sample was contaminated but something is very wrong here. Potassium can indicate a coolant problem (although sodium is low). Off the top of my head, iron and lead seem even high for break-in but you can search for some factory fill uoa's.

-Dennis
my drive home is half highway, and then half arterial roads full of people with SUVs they drive too slowly...the drive in is obviously the opposite. i would say i often accelerate quickly but drive pretty 'normally' on the highway.

i have an AccessPort but I had it when i did the Blackstone analysis too (i think i'd just gotten it). that said, i've been told that Blackstone doesn't do a great job testing fuel so it may be that i had the issue but didn't realize it.

no other mods. i know not to idle too much before a change; i'll have to be careful to drive steadily next time.

how quickly does Fuel clear from oil when driving on the highway (when, theoretically not adding fuel by idling or driving like a douchebag)? i don't have a concept of how long or how much of those undesirable behaviors i'd need to be doing to get my fuel number up that high
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:54 PM   #247
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Thanks for the UOA, quantum. Your post makes it UOA # 4.

There is some serious fuel in there! Do you idle a lot or drive a lot of short trips?
only 4? bummer. i'm trying to keep it on topic here with UOA and related discussion only. anyway, i dont idle much and don't really take alot of short trips so not sure what the hell is going on! i will take bluesubie's advice and do what the lab suggests - sample again!
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:09 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by quantum13 View Post
my drive home is half highway, and then half arterial roads full of people with SUVs they drive too slowly...the drive in is obviously the opposite. i would say i often accelerate quickly but drive pretty 'normally' on the highway.

i have an AccessPort but I had it when i did the Blackstone analysis too (i think i'd just gotten it). that said, i've been told that Blackstone doesn't do a great job testing fuel so it may be that i had the issue but didn't realize it.

no other mods. i know not to idle too much before a change; i'll have to be careful to drive steadily next time.

how quickly does Fuel clear from oil when driving on the highway (when, theoretically not adding fuel by idling or driving like a douchebag)? i don't have a concept of how long or how much of those undesirable behaviors i'd need to be doing to get my fuel number up that high

Blackstone estimates the fuel reading by looking at your flashpoint result. In all likelihood the fuel dilution result in a BS uoa is actually higher than estimated. OAI uses a more accurate Gas Chromatography and actually tests for fuel.

Are you running an OTS tune? The fuel is likely from the AP, your driving just before the sample, and the Direct Injection engine. This is why you do not want to run any oil with a low viscosity or HTHS. If you want to stick with Amsoil, run HDD 5W-30, DEO 5W-40, or EFM 5W-40. Forget about running the Signature Series. If you have a stash of XL, I would use 2-3 quarts of XL 10W-40 along with the 5W-30. Your car is no longer stock and a GF5 oil is the last thing you should run.

Again, there is a problem with the oil additive reading. This is either lab error or Amsoil screwed up when they bottled it or it's not Amsoil XL. Zinc should be around 800.

Fuel typically clears after about 15 minutes of normal driving. Although, it may not clear if you have a problem or if it has to do with your tune. The DIT Foresters are showing high fuel as well. I run AP Stage I OTS, but my fuel typically isn't too bad.

Maybe this is all just a fluke. The next uoa should give a little more insight.

Edit:
The more I think about this, the more I think this is not even Amsoil XL. Magnesium and Calcium are way off as well. Did you change the oil and were the bottles brand new?

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 12-23-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:05 PM   #249
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Dennis -
yes i'm running an OTS tune. i will switch to a different oil soon. you aren't the first one to recommend the HDD 5w-30. I agree that i'm done with the GF5 oils; it's clearly not doing the job. i'll run the XL in my wife's NA Honda or something.

I did the oil change and yes the bottles were new. a dealer i spoke with actually said they'd be off before the UOA even came back because it was the first time i'd run XL in this motor. I agree; the next UOA will give us more information.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:13 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Blackstone estimates the fuel reading by looking at your flashpoint result. In all likelihood the fuel dilution result in a BS uoa is actually higher than estimated. OAI uses a more accurate Gas Chromatography and actually tests for fuel.

Are you running an OTS tune? The fuel is likely from the AP, your driving just before the sample, and the Direct Injection engine. This is why you do not want to run any oil with a low viscosity or HTHS. If you want to stick with Amsoil, run HDD 5W-30, DEO 5W-40, or EFM 5W-40. Forget about running the Signature Series. If you have a stash of XL, I would use 2-3 quarts of XL 10W-40 along with the 5W-30. Your car is no longer stock and a GF5 oil is the last thing you should run.

Again, there is a problem with the oil additive reading. This is either lab error or Amsoil screwed up when they bottled it or it's not Amsoil XL. Zinc should be around 800.

Fuel typically clears after about 15 minutes of normal driving. Although, it may not clear if you have a problem or if it has to do with your tune. The DIT Foresters are showing high fuel as well. I run AP Stage I OTS, but my fuel typically isn't too bad.

Maybe this is all just a fluke. The next uoa should give a little more insight.

Edit:
The more I think about this, the more I think this is not even Amsoil XL. Magnesium and Calcium are way off as well. Did you change the oil and were the bottles brand new?

-Dennis
I'm the aforementioned dealer quantum13 referred to. Figured I'd jump into this discussion since I've been helping him out interpreting his analysis results.

This is not the first time Blackstone has failed to report fuel dilution. On the Cruze forum, we've tested the Diesel oils on the 2.0T and OAI found fuel dilution while Blackstone did not. It is problematic when analyzing oil as it can lead us to make poor recommendations. Blackstone's result may lead one to believe that the oil sheared when in fact it thinned from fuel dilution. I would not assume that Blackstone would over-estimate fuel dilution given what I have seen in the past and what you just saw here.

Fuel will not all burn off, be it gasoline or diesel. I've seen this behavior in the Cruze 1.4T as well, although in the case I'm thinking of, the owner idled for several hours at a time sleeping in his car as a courier. I doubt that is the case here.

It doesn't help anything that this is a new engine, and one that is reporting catastrophic failures at low mileage. Perhaps this analysis might clue one into its causes, but it is very unusual for an analysis company to make as blundering a mistake as to completely miss significant deviations from the virgin formulation of the oil. All one can do at this point is speculate. This is another reason why I always recommend that people take oil analysis results as a trend.

I know XL reformulated in the last few years, so comparison points to their old formulation will be irrelevant. I haven't found many oil analysis reports because frankly, 99% of my customers use signature series or another one of our 12+ TBN oils. OE exists to compete with the DIFM (do it for me) market against Mobil 1, Kendall GT-1, and other group 3 synthetics. XL exists as a premium alternative in the DIFM market or to ease customers into the 15,000 mile oil drains offered by the SS oils. As such, oil analysis reference points will be hard to come by.

Food for thought. This is not the first time I've seen elevated Zinc levels in an FA20, especially at low mileage. Zinc is an alloying element for bearings and thrust washers. It is alloyed with copper to make brass so it is not unheard of to find it as a wear metal. Is there any brass at all in the FA20? Turbo perhaps? Cooler lines? Bushings?

This is still too low of a mileage oil analysis to be truly meaningful as wear metals are still showing up. If you see a downward trending (but still unusually high) wear metal content as noted, you'll know why. I expected this entire analysis to look odd and noted before he sent it in.

I also recommended HDD. I hadn't expected to recommend one of our 40 weight oils simply because I didn't expect the oil to shear. The discussion around Signature Series existed simply as a far more shear stable alternative, as it was previously thought the entirety of the OE oil's thinning was caused by shearing. A reciprocating crank under boost with hard launches at low RPMs (which our friend has acknowledged to doing often) will certainly be a recipe for sheared oil.

I'll be able to to comment further on the next oil analysis. I appreciate your input in helping my friend understand his oil analysis. I think we've all learned something here.
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