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Old 10-31-2002, 08:56 PM   #1
Scooby Guru
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Default Cobb says NO supercharger for 2.5

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Old 10-31-2002, 09:22 PM   #2
Frank Army
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1999 Outback Sport
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For the lazy......

Here is a much awaited update on the Forced Induction Kit we have been working on. These are new developments that I want too keep you abreast on. First off I say forced induction as we have been investigating supercharger and turbo options at the same time. Not putting all of our eggs in one basket so to speak. At this point it is looking as though we will be releasing a turbo system rather than a supercharger. There are many reasons why that I will go in depth on.

Quality/Reliability of Power
One disadvantage of a supercharger is that they are not quite as efficient as a turbo. What this means is that intake air temps after the supercharger can get quite high when compared to a properly designed turbo set-up. This makes intercooling a necessity to make it reliable. The load that a supercharger places on a motor combined with itís relative inefficiency would increase the potential for blown motors. Especially when you take into account what the system is being designed for, Legacy, Outback, and Forrester owners who want lo end torque and the ability to climb steep hills with more authority. A long steep hill places a huge load on a motor, especially if you pack in a few friends and their equipment.

The way we wanted to make a supercharger would be with itís own intake manifold rather than one that hung off of the side of the motor and required relocating everything. To get an idea, think about factory supercharged vehicles like the Ford Lightning and New Cobra, as well as the Grand Prix GTP. We were using a positive displacement supercharger after the throttle body with a custom made intake manifold. This placed the throttle body in the stock location so that stock air boxes, as well as our intakes could be retained. Having manifolds cast is cost effective if you are a manufacture and are having 10ís of thousands of manifolds cast, but if you are only making a few thousand manifolds the relative cost per manifold goes up. What this translates to is a supercharger kit that was well above the price that potential customers would be willing to pay. A turbo system does not require re-engineering of as many costly systems.

Line-up Compatibility
To put it simply a turbo package has proven to be easier to make applicable to more models and years. The differences from one year and one model to the next seem small when you look at the basics, but designing a manifold for each small change makes it even harder and more costly. A turbo can be easily made to fit a range of different configurations.

Altitude Compensation
Again, going back to the intended goal which is low end torque. A turbo system has much better high altitude performance. The intent was to design a kit for the owner who wants to be able to load the car down with gear and go up into the mountains and still have the ability to pass. Quite simply, the turbo has the ability to make more power in this situation while still maintaining a higher degree of reliability.

Here is the current state of the turbo system to give you an insight into its design.
Small turbo designed for low end power
Liquid to air intercooler with heat exchanger placed in front of radiator
~5 PSI of boost
High flow cat in downpipe

To sum it up we can make just as much low end grunt with a properly designed turbo system as a positive displacement supercharger, without the drawbacks inherent to a supercharger. The intended uses are much more suited to a turbo system. We want to make it known that this is not being designed as a drag race, top end power type system. There are plenty of turbo kits available for that application. We are accommodating the owner that is focused on drivability and supplementing the carís abilities. The supercharger system can be done properly, but at a price that is far above what people are willing to pay for the intended purposes. The only way to make a supercharger feasible is to make compromises we are not willing to take, and quite frankly it would look like an elementary school science project if done in an inexpensive manner.
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Old 11-01-2002, 12:30 AM   #3
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Old 11-01-2002, 12:46 PM   #4
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Stupid Cobb.

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Old 11-01-2002, 01:05 PM   #5
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That's so sad. I havent seen many companies that would be so selective in what they sell to the public when it comes to mods, some companies would just throw some stuff out there for people to buy and let them figure it out. They must really care about giving people the best performance possible, I would like to see both available but oh well it's their decision (just from a money stand point). It's kinda dissapointing but a good presentation of facts and reasons why they would'nt produce a supercharger.

I am partial to the turbo but I've only heard drawbacks of superchargers. It would be cool to hear reasons why you guyz think they should

Maybe they'd humor us and make both

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Old 11-01-2002, 01:23 PM   #6
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back when i had an RS i too relished the idea of a super charger vs turbo...

however.. a small turbo t25 or so turbo is likely to be just as fun...

remember cobb can produce a compleate solution now that he can remap ECUs .. to produce oem quality tuning ... far less fueling nightmares....

would you buy a $5000-$6000 super charger kit for a car worth 12-14000
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:32 PM   #7
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Aside from the novelty of having a supercharged boxer, this is the better approach. Have you actually poked around under the hood to try and figure out an optimal supercharger configuration? It gets messy real fast.

These guys are VERY picky about what has their name on it and this will hit the market exactly where he was aiming.

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Old 11-01-2002, 05:38 PM   #8
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all well its for the best.....
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Old 11-01-2002, 06:08 PM   #9
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I can see where the integrated manifold thingy would get expensive really fast. It was also limiting them to the 2000+ 2.5l only. That had already ruled both my subies out from the Cobb kit.
Too bad as this would have been a nice unit if it proved to be as plug and play as the TRD superchargers. There just aren't enough obsessed subaru owners to pull this off.

I wonder if their turbo will work on the 2.2l?
The water to air front mount intercooler sounds great for those of us with no hood scoop.
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:10 PM   #10
Bob O
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Don't the Jackson Racing superchargers for Honda's have an integrated manifold?

I I were going to do it, then I would lean toward the turbo. Mainly because I don't like the idea of adding another uninetended torque/belt tension load to the crank shaft. It's likely strong enough, but...

The nice thing about a Cobb setup is the fact that even though it's just 5psi it should be quite robust and well thought out.


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Old 11-01-2002, 07:28 PM   #11
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Well as much as i'd like the novelty of a supercharger... They are the experts, and I can live with that. Its still sad that they wont be able to pull it off.

The novelty of it still draws me in though, Iv'e wanted an RS-SC for a while now.
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Old 11-02-2002, 12:12 AM   #12
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ya...kinda bummed by the news....

if i wanted a small reliable turbo kit....i would have gone w/ the Ludespeed Kit (6psi)

i hope the DNT SC (Templar) kit works out...
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Old 11-02-2002, 09:23 AM   #13
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Just curious but does produce anything ? everything seems to be relabeled ? Maybe they cjust couldn't find a supercharger out on the market that thy could relabel , sorry to all you cobb fans. Anyhow, the DNT SC should work because they are not building an intergrated manifold. For our "spider" manifold , this is probably where the cost got ridiculous since I don't see many cars with the sprider manifold. Why would you want an integrated SC to the manifold ? Jackson does it and compare their SC's to Vortech who doesn't. Oh well. Worse comes to worse I'll go call vortech back regarding a custom kit.

Someone made a goodpoint about why would you spend 5k-6k on a 12k-14k car. People on this board do it all time thats why we are here.
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Old 11-03-2002, 01:51 AM   #14
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go to www.rs25.com and go into the forced induction forum and see what templar has been cooking> you will be pleasently suprised
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