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Old 03-24-2016, 11:20 AM   #1
Duk
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Default Cobb AP OTS Stage 2 w/ Catless J-Pipe....is this OK?

Hey everyone. I have a 2015 WRX, and a Cobb AP that I've been running the Stage 1 93 OTS map for about 10,000 miles now.

I'm planning to pick up a Grimmspeed Catless J-Pipe this weekend...

Will I be able to use the Stage 2 OTS tune from Cobb, at least until I get a proper tune done? Should I be considering at least an e-tune right away?

I know Cobb Stage 2 is tuned for catted pipes, so what kind of risk am I taking with a catless pipe in the same configuration?

Thanks!
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:34 AM   #2
Deadfish
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I installed my catless turbo back thunder exhaust with the stage 2 it's map. It ran just as expected. I would always recommend a pro tune if you are satisfied with the power level. Or you can do an e tune by brentuning or someone similar if you plan on adding more later.

A pro/e tune will be a better option than the ots map. I find the ots maps act like a bandaid until you get something professionally done for power and reliability.I am working with brentuning with an e tune and blown away by the results. It's 250 for an e tune.
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:42 AM   #3
Duk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadfish View Post
I installed my catless turbo back thunder exhaust with the stage 2 it's map. It ran just as expected. I would always recommend a pro tune if you are satisfied with the power level. Or you can do an e tune by brentuning or someone similar if you plan on adding more later.

A pro/e tune will be a better option than the ots map. I find the ots maps act like a bandaid until you get something professionally done for power and reliability.I am working with brentuning with an e tune and blown away by the results. It's 250 for an e tune.
Nice. As long as it's OK temporarily, that's what I needed to know. It's by no means as permanent solution. I'll be finding a quality e-tune source (maybe Brentuning) within the next week or two.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:22 PM   #4
HinshawWRX
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Nothing wrong with an OTS map if you follow the map notes, having not read them for the DIT motor I still have a feeling it does not mention that catless is okay.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:30 PM   #5
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Ran my catless setup with the COBB stage 2 OTS map for 18k with no problem.
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Old 03-24-2016, 02:45 PM   #6
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I did catless exhaust when I first went stage 2. I emailed cobb about running catless though the map notes say you should use a hi flow cat. Cobb said it was no problem to run It catless.

Do your self a favor and spend the extra $250 and get an e-tune through bren. Best money I ever spent
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Old 03-24-2016, 03:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb22b View Post
I did catless exhaust when I first went stage 2. I emailed cobb about running catless though the map notes say you should use a hi flow cat. Cobb said it was no problem to run It catless.

Do your self a favor and spend the extra $250 and get an e-tune through bren. Best money I ever spent
Any idea how much subsequent tunes are? I want to go stage 2 but am too impatient to wait for all the parts, so i was thinking about getting a downpipe and intake first, etune, then get TGV+EGR deletes, EBCS, AOS. Now that I think about it, the items I listed after are maybe a combined are an extra $500-600, maybe I'll just save.
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Old 03-24-2016, 03:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kCelsius View Post
Any idea how much subsequent tunes are? I want to go stage 2 but am too impatient to wait for all the parts, so i was thinking about getting a downpipe and intake first, etune, then get TGV+EGR deletes, EBCS, AOS. Now that I think about it, the items I listed after are maybe a combined are an extra $500-600, maybe I'll just save.
I think his prices to have things adjusted are pretty reasonable. Tgv deletes are 100 bucks and took me about 45 minutes to do them alone. I did a 3 port ebcs at the same time. Install time for both was just shy of 2 hours. I'd just get it all before getting tuned. I emailed bren about tuning and wound up buying all the parts I needed from him. Had them at my door 2 days later. He also supplied a base map for the car to run safely with the new tgv and 3 port until we can tune it.

I'm half way through the tune now and the car is just insane. So smooth.
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Old 03-24-2016, 04:03 PM   #9
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Skip the e-tune and get your car pro-tuned in person by a reputable shop. Even if you have to drive a ways to get it done. Best advice I can give you.
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Old 03-24-2016, 04:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kCelsius View Post
Any idea how much subsequent tunes are? I want to go stage 2 but am too impatient to wait for all the parts, so i was thinking about getting a downpipe and intake first, etune, then get TGV+EGR deletes, EBCS, AOS. Now that I think about it, the items I listed after are maybe a combined are an extra $500-600, maybe I'll just save.
I used Eric from Torqued Performance for my e-tune. He was half the price of the big-name e-tuners, and only charged me $50 for retunes when I added more parts. Excellent customer service. Car ran perfectly and made GREAT power.
Once I had all my stuff installed I went and got a dyno-tune from IAG's tuner (I highly recommend a dyno-tune as a permanent solution once all your parts are installed).
Good luck & have fun with your build!
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Skip the e-tune and get your car pro-tuned in person by a reputable shop. Even if you have to drive a ways to get it done. Best advice I can give you.
I have a number of reputable shops in my area that I could go to, but the pricing doesn't make sense at this point in my build.

Believe me, if money wasn't an object, I'd be at P&L in a heartbeat. But at $650 for a protune, when I haven't even acquired all the parts I want yet, is just stupid.

For $200-250 I can get a quality e-tune that'll be safer than any OTS map I can run, and I can get revisions and updates when I add parts too (like an intake, or a turboback, or whatever).

If I get tuned at P&L right now, that's $650. If I add an intake, that's another $650. Sorry, but that doesn't make financial sense right now. Down the road when I'm satisfied with the power? Then I'll make an appointment with JR.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:35 AM   #12
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It sounds like you figured out what to do Duk. Good luck!
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Skip the e-tune and get your car pro-tuned in person by a reputable shop. Even if you have to drive a ways to get it done. Best advice I can give you.
I'd normally agree with you. However, these days with the current pricing of dyno tunes reaching upwards of $850 (in my area, at least) and the plethora of reputable etuners with thousands of proven results, it just doesn't make sense to pay for a dyno tune at Stage 2 or Stage 2+ power levels when you can get a solid etune for ~$200. Especially when these etunes can be adjusted on the fly for $50 to $100 if you choose to add some relatively minor parts later on.

Don't get me wrong, a good dyno tune is a great way to go. But as time has progressed, technology has advanced and tuners have adapted, etunes are now as good or better than a dyno tune since they also take into account real world road conditions.

Now, if you are going beyond Stage 2+ levels of power and upgrading a turbo and/or putting in a built motor, then a proper dyno tune right off the bat is still the best option. But until you get to that point, there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a proper etune from a reputable tuner.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:04 PM   #14
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You get what you pay for. I've had couple e-tunes and now pro-tuned on the dyno - night and day difference and I'm "only" stage 2. Stay away from e-tunes, kids.
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Old 03-27-2016, 06:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
You get what you pay for. I've had couple e-tunes and now pro-tuned on the dyno - night and day difference and I'm "only" stage 2. Stay away from e-tunes, kids.
I fully expect that the pro-tune will be noticeably better than an e-tune. That being said, until I get most (or all) of the parts on the car, I can't drop $650.

And yeah, I WOULD rather do it in stages, rather than all at once, for a number of reasons.

I don't think it's crazy to do an e-tune for now, at all. But I hear you, you definitely do get what you pay for.
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:23 PM   #16
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The newest Cobb Stage 1 and Stage 2 V301 OTS maps seem much better than V2 series, in that there is no or very little fk or fkl, at least with my experience testing the Stage 1 until MAP revises their stage 1 and 2 tune for the new Subaru ECU software (their tunes are fine to use as is , no issue I just decided to test Cobbs Stage 1 V301 out).

You can run that stage 2 OTS Cobb tune for a long time with no real worries at all if you find the power adequate. If you are happy with the power and don't want to spend a lot their is also the option of their Cobb SF intake you can add for additional gain and they have a supporting V301 OTS map for it.

However that's about as far as you can go with Cobb, full turbo back or an aftermarket down pipe to oem cbe with a Cobb intake.

Last edited by Cisco Kidd; 03-29-2016 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:55 AM   #17
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Do you know if running the COBB OTS stage 2 map will throw a code with a catless jpipe?
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:27 AM   #18
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Cobb OTS tunes expect a catted J-pipe. If you're gonna run catless I'd get an e-tune. Follow the map notes to a tee, many have experimented, many succeeded, many failed, I personally wouldn't risk it. Get a proper E-tune.
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:55 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by 15AETCWRX View Post
Do you know if running the COBB OTS stage 2 map will throw a code with a catless jpipe?
I would expect that yes it would. I'll check the map in ATR and see if the CEL codes are on or off. I'd be surprised if cobb had them off though. They tend to be cautious with emissions related stuff.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:22 PM   #20
15AETCWRX
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably stick with a catted J pipe just to be safe.
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:55 AM   #21
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A few folks are still referencing this ancient thread so I wanted to chime in - We always recommend using a downpipe with a high-flow or OEM catalytic converter, not only to help meet emissions standards, but also for performance and safety of the car. In some vehicles we support, using a race or non-catted downpipe can cause boost creep, or uncontrollable boost. This is typically something that tuning cannot fix as it is a mechanical issue that can only be resolved with a catted downpipe. None of our OTS maps support cars with a catless downpipe. We recommend welding on a catalytic converter or getting a downpipe with a cat already installed.

[email protected]
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danidez View Post
Ran my catless setup with the COBB stage 2 OTS map for 18k with no problem.
Hey I have a 17 wrx and Iím putting in the catless jpipe in a day I was wondering if you have any lights on the dash since you are using the ots and are running it with out a tune
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:13 PM   #23
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Read the post directly above yours and reevaluate whether this is a good decision for your car. (Hint: its not).
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Read the post directly above yours and reevaluate whether this is a good decision for your car. (Hint: its not).
I would also like to echo this.

Catless downpipes: Not even once.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:51 PM   #25
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this topic talks about a "catless" downpipe...

so, if i have 2 cats in a system, and decat the first one, leave one cat for the rear , will i be fine on stage 2 ?

( pertaining to a 2005 legacy gt)
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