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Old 08-18-2016, 07:38 PM   #1
BrenTuning
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Default BrenTuning | KillerB Exhaust Manifold Independent Testing | IWG and EWG

The OEM header in our opinion is a really good piece. We were assuming like in most platforms, we would see a bunch of knock off headers come out with no real data to sell the google crawlers and guys who need to have every bolt on available. Due to the construction of the OEM header, this wasn’t such an easy task. A few weeks ago when KillerB approached us, we knew they had something good up their sleeve as they had previously advocated for the OEM header and also concluded that the piece was very good and hard to replicate / improve on. They wanted their pre-production manifold tested and given their luck with the EJ, and our experience with the FA, we were happy to oblige.

We set out to find a proper test car, we decided on a good customer of ours and a car we have done testing on from tune only to FBO with every step in between (J-pipe/TGVD/EGRD/Verticooler, etc). We picked this car because we knew it was strong and very consistent, when testing, you want a subject that has the least variance. Full mod list is:

Grimmspeed Catted J
Corsa Catback,
Grimmspeed Intake
Grimmspeed EBCS
PW Verticooler
TGVD
EGRD

Testing done on Shell 93 Oct on our Mustang MD150AWD (stock car does 220WHP on this), outside temperature was VERY hot and humid, close to 100* in the shop.

What we wanted to show here is the car pre-header as-is, post header no tuning and then post header tuned along with IWG and EWG testing. What we want to clarify is this car is using max effort tuning which means that every last HP was extracted on pump fuel. We did this same procedure pre and post header. The same tank of Shell 93 and same outside conditions (as close as possible) were present throughout testing.

Installation:

Straight forward and no real surprises besides the studs stripping and requiring repair on the turbo > manifold side. This can be a bit tricky, but no worse than repairing after installing a J-pipe. The header slipped right on without hassle.

Sound:

Very similar, could not really tell a difference to our untrained ears.

Pre-tune, post header install notes:


After bolting on the header the low end became noticeably stronger. The spool is very quick and it feels like it picks up big time in the low end (2500-3500 range) which is visible on the graphs as well. This will require careful tuning for those who run heavy torque down low as we have seen what the FA rods do when pushed. Car feels more lively into boost, but it's hard to tell.

We took the average of 6 max effort passes from the last visit this car had to the dyno, we then ran the car 6 times and took the average pass and applied that as the baseline (header installed and no tuning). Looking at the logs, boost levels/ignition/fuel were the same as previous logs with near 0 correction. So needless to say, from our testing, this modification does not require heavy retuning, although always recommended for maximum benefit as seen on the graphs.

Looking at the graphs, what we saw on the dyno coincided with what we felt on the street, low end sooner -- much sooner along with small gains across the curve. Run after run showed small increases and a smoother power delivery across the curve on the same map as pre header. Gains below 3500RPM were the most noticeable. After we were satisfied that it is indeed making the power run after run and data was collected, we fired up our Cobb PROTuner software.



KillerB IWG Header tuned notes:

Through mild adjustments that are allowed with the different flow and increased airflow of this header, we were able to optimize intake/exhaust AVCS, ignition, duty cycle and a slightly different fuel curve that provided gains across the whole powerband. All of this with the same near 0 correction every pull while providing a max effort tune, same as the previous non-header protune. 16WHP/17WTQ was found over the previous OEM manifold tune with power coming on sooner.



KillerB EWG Header with twin Tial 38 notes:


Given the fact that the hotside is large and we have tuned OEM location upgraded turbos and prototypes before, we didn’t see a need for twin gates, but boy were we wrong.

After installation, and some creative work to keep the OEM IWG shut (hint hint fabricators), we took it to the dyno. We used the same gate pressure (10LB spring) as the OEM IWG to keep things similar and interesting and also gave us a decent starting point from our previous IWG header map.

With some mild adjustments, we were able to get some HUGE power on pump fuel. Mostly midrange, and for once, some flat top end FA power! This modification with a car on a pump fuel is similar to the stock header on E85/Meth/VP fuel. The sound may be different for some of your ears, but with a 3 port similar to Company23 it will be able to change the pitch. The idea of twin scroll and open gate along with a quick spooling turbo means a lot of open gate noise at part throttle even with gentle WGDC tuning at low loads.

The car blasted pass after pass without much protest, in the same bad heat as the previous header. Again, we chose the average for a final number, one of our throw out passes (highest) hit 348WHP when the car had sat for a minute. As you can tell by the graphs, the EWG car was a touch behind the IWG as far as spool but makes up for it instantly, and from what we’ve studied with the stock FA rods, this may even be a good thing with the extra torque it has. Mid range gains of ~40WHP/40WTQ over the OEM header were found with peak gains of 23WHP/22WTQ.



Conclusion:

Great product as anticipated. Works as designed, makes great power when tuned, fills in the mid range very nicely and helps carry power to redline. The fit and finish is what you would expect from KillerB. This is a must have for customers looking to max out their stock turbo. With ethanol/race fuel/meth, this will allow 350+WHP stock turbo FA20's to be the norm. We will be stocking these manifolds as soon as they hit production. Please contact us to order yours and follow us on the social media accounts below for more exclusive FA data and testing!

Contact:

Phone: 508-762-1769
Email: [email protected]
Instagram: @brentuning
Facebook: facebook.com/brentuning


Additional graphs/pictures:










Chris
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Old 08-18-2016, 07:47 PM   #2
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Solid writeup!
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:19 PM   #3
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Great write up guys and nice results, was there any modification necessary to the aluminum belly pan for the External Wastegates? Looks like there would be. Thanks!!
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:33 PM   #4
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This is exactly what I would expect as far as logging data with similar testing conditions from you guys! Awesome write up!!!
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:54 PM   #5
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Gat dang. Can't wait to see what this can do with a OEM replacement turbo. To hold safe levels of torque all the way to 6500 would be super crazy fun and produce huge power without breaking no rods.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:54 PM   #6
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Good job and believe able results.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:59 PM   #7
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One question though... where would the EWGs route to the exhaust? I can't imagine the emissions and noise police would appreciate you spewing your fun down the road :P
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schtoogie View Post
One question though... where would the EWGs route to the exhaust? I can't imagine the emissions and noise police would appreciate you spewing your fun down the road :P
It's vent to atmo, just like in the picture. IIRC I heard something about killer b routing the EWG's to the I pipe on their turbo kit but I haven't seen it yet.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrenTuning View Post
After installation, and some creative work to keep the OEM IWG shut (hint hint fabricators), we took it to the dyno. We used the same gate pressure (10LB spring) as the OEM IWG to keep things similar and interesting and also gave us a decent starting point from our previous IWG header map.

With some mild adjustments, we were able to get some HUGE power on pump fuel. Mostly midrange, and for once, some flat top end FA power! This modification with a car on a pump fuel is similar to the stock header on E85/Meth/VP fuel. The sound may be different for some of your ears, but with a 3 port similar to Company23 it will be able to change the pitch. The idea of twin scroll and open gate along with a quick spooling turbo means a lot of open gate noise at part throttle even with gentle WGDC tuning at low loads.
Wouldn't the gate noise issue be somewhat solvable with a stiffer spring?
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:13 PM   #10
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Nice write up & solid numbers. I have the same mods as the test car, but different catback (even same color lol), my protune numbers are similar as well. Wonder if it's worth it to go with the KillerB EWG headers, wait to see what GS comes up with, if they decide to go thru with it, or wait for more turbo options. Also interested in the added stress this will put on the internals. This is great for the FA community tho. How much of a issue was the EWG headers fitment with the GS j-pipe?
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
It's vent to atmo, just like in the picture. IIRC I heard something about killer b routing the EWG's to the I pipe on their turbo kit but I haven't seen it yet.
Sounds like too smelly and loud to not get pulled over by Cali cops
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schtoogie View Post
Sounds like too smelly and loud to not get pulled over by Cali cops
won't WOT or boost next to cops xD
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:29 PM   #13
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do you guys by chance have a video of the car on the dyno with the ewg? Also solid write up and looking for to adding this to my to-do list.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by slimFA20 View Post
do you guys by chance have a video of the car on the dyno with the ewg? Also solid write up and looking for to adding this to my to-do list.
https://www.facebook.com/brentuning/...c_location=ufi
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryscherry View Post
won't WOT or boost next to cops xD
"The idea of twin scroll and open gate along with a quick spooling turbo means a lot of open gate noise at part throttle even with gentle WGDC tuning at low loads."


Thanks Brentuning for an excellent detailed write up!
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:08 PM   #16
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How is it independent testing if a vendor selling the product in question is doing the testing.....
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by slicky View Post
How is it independent testing if a vendor selling the product in question is doing the testing.....
Because the exhaust manifold is from Killer B Motorsport. If the manifold performed like crap in Bren Tuning's testing, they wouldn't sell it.
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:20 PM   #18
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Good point but I think both Bren and Killer both have integrity and hopefully Killer B will have a group Buy.

Also there is another company doing headers.......
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:31 AM   #19
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yummy... nicely done writeup as usual Bren.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:36 AM   #20
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Now this is the legit way to show gains from your product.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:52 AM   #21
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This looking like a great setup for those of us looking to keep things simple with the stock turbo.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryscherry View Post
Wow that sounds WAY different than the EWG on an EJ. I feel like the EWG on an EJ kind of ruins the sound in a way, but this seems to just blend right in with some additional gate noise.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:15 AM   #23
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Can you share the boost plot for these runs?

Is it the same as before and all this setup is doing for power is getting all of the excess exhaust the compressor can't use out of the system more efficiently?
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:28 AM   #24
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Big thanks to Bentuning for taking the time to perform the testing. This is great data for the community!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schtoogie View Post
One question though... where would the EWGs route to the exhaust? I can't imagine the emissions and noise police would appreciate you spewing your fun down the road :P
As long as you're out of boost, there is no EWG noise or additional emissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
It's vent to atmo, just like in the picture. IIRC I heard something about killer b routing the EWG's to the I pipe on their turbo kit but I haven't seen it yet.
The recirculated setup you're thinking of is with our turbo kit. Doing a recirculated setup is expensive as it requires a double slip, flex section, merge collector, v-band flanges/clamp, plus all the straight and formed tube and welding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
Wouldn't the gate noise issue be somewhat solvable with a stiffer spring?
Some are experimenting with different spring pressures. Our setup is on the Garrett Twin Scroll GTX3067-R (Twin Scroll Fury Kit) is it doesn't translate to exactly what you observe with an OEM turbo, but I can start to hear the WGs starting to open ~6-8psi of boost and full howl by ~12psi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeTi View Post
How much of a issue was the EWG headers fitment with the GS j-pipe?
Shouldn't be any issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schtoogie View Post
Sounds like too smelly and loud to not get pulled over by Cali cops
Just don't flog it by the cops

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicky View Post
How is it independent testing if a vendor selling the product in question is doing the testing.....
Have you seen any of their other reviews? One of the things I've always liked about Brentuning is their honesty. Good or bad, they will tell you how it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracerut View Post
Because the exhaust manifold is from Killer B Motorsport. If the manifold performed like crap in Bren Tuning's testing, they wouldn't sell it.
^ Very true

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
Wow that sounds WAY different than the EWG on an EJ. I feel like the EWG on an EJ kind of ruins the sound in a way, but this seems to just blend right in with some additional gate noise.
This is the difference between Single Scroll and Twin Scroll. The first time I ever heard it I thought something was wrong
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post



As long as you're out of boost, there is no EWG noise or additional emissions.


When is that with the FA + stock turbo? When you're sitting idle at a stop light?
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