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Old 01-11-2017, 12:46 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Audi: sports cars can use self-driving, too

The big talk in the car industry at the moment surrounds the introduction of autonomous driving. The technology is nearly ready, even if legislation isn’t, and the onslaught of cars piloting themselves feels like an inevitability.

But if you like driving, you shouldn’t feel too disheartened. Least not according to Audi board member Dr Dietmar Voggenreiter, who answered Top Gear’s plea for some good news for people who still relish driving a car (quickly) themselves.

“We have clear ideas. Now, you take training when you go to trackdays. But in the next sports car, its autonomous mode may show you how to drive really fast, then give you feedback when you drive the next lap. Then it takes you out again and shows you better braking points.” Yikes.

“We talked about this with our designers, we called it ‘the ultimate track car’. This could be a sporty, fully autonomous car that drives you through to the traffic to the race track, so you’re fully relaxed for when you get to the race track, then switch to manual and enjoy yourself.

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“There are a lot of ideas. We are also petrolheads so we like to drive cars. But nearly all Audi customers will find traffic jams super boring. I see it with the future RS6, when there’s traffic, you can switch to piloted drive.”

So, fast RS Audis that take care of the boring stuff, then act as an electronic teacher when you get to a trackday. Is your heart warmed by the idea? Or is there nothing more terrifying than being flung around on circuit by a bunch of software? For reference, we’ve already tried it…
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:23 PM   #2
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Dig it. Guess it'll be fenced to tracks only. Likely not able to set a course on public roads and instruct it to get you there rapidly.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:05 PM   #3
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yes but by default the car without the tech would be hundreds of pounds lighter and smaller.. so there is that.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:20 PM   #4
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yes but by default the car without the tech would be hundreds of pounds lighter and smaller.. so there is that.
Why would it be hundreds of pounds lighter?
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:11 PM   #5
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Why would it be hundreds of pounds lighter?
Scrappy still uses one of these for selfies.



Now bolt a dozen of them to a car, plus one of these to control it...





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Old 01-12-2017, 10:57 AM   #6
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Self driving cars need electric motors and mechanical interfaces to turn the wheels and apply the brake(s) and give gas. Non self driving cars do not need any of that extra hardware/wiring/interfaces/ sensors, etc. All that adds up.

This is assuming mind you, that the driver still has a mechanical connection to the brakes and steering wheel and the gas pedal and it is not all steer/brake/accelerate by wire.

The more technology you put in between you and the car, the more they have to fake feedback. If you can have the real thing in a lighter cheaper package, why not get that.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:35 AM   #7
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Self driving cars need electric motors and mechanical interfaces to turn the wheels and apply the brake(s) and give gas. Non self driving cars do not need any of that extra hardware/wiring/interfaces/ sensors, etc. All that adds up.

This is assuming mind you, that the driver still has a mechanical connection to the brakes and steering wheel and the gas pedal and it is not all steer/brake/accelerate by wire.

The more technology you put in between you and the car, the more they have to fake feedback. If you can have the real thing in a lighter cheaper package, why not get that.
You do realize that most of that stuff is already there on modern cars, right? Throttle, brakes, steering, all DBW even on KIA's. It's literally coding and cameras.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:56 AM   #8
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Yes, yes, that was not my point bud.

I know throttle drive by wire is commonplace
and electric power steering is gaining ground quickly
But auto braking is not everywhere yet.

My point is that the fact that they are getting common place is not a good thing if you want a car for the track. You are carrying weight you do not need. If driving on a track is your hearts desire, then a car without any of that is far better. That was the gist of my point. I know we have started down this safety nazi rabbit hole where the car thinks more than the driver, who cannot be bothered to pay attention. I am not ready to hand my driving life over to software engineers. I feel an article on my website practically writing itself right now
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:04 PM   #9
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Yes, yes, that was not my point bud.

I know throttle drive by wire is commonplace
and electric power steering is gaining ground quickly
But auto braking is not everywhere yet.

My point is that the fact that they are getting common place is not a good thing if you want a car for the track. You are carrying weight you do not need. If driving on a track is your hearts desire, then a car without any of that is far better. That was the gist of my point. I know we have started down this safety nazi rabbit hole where the car thinks more than the driver, who cannot be bothered to pay attention. I am not ready to hand my driving life over to software engineers. I feel an article on my website practically writing itself right now
Look, we all know the best thing for the track is a 1990 Miata with tires, pads and a hoop. This is not aiming for that person. This is for the guy with a GTR that takes it to the occasional track day and sits with an instructor. Except now (well, in the future) you can sit behind the wheel and let the car show you the best lines and braking points then go out and try it yourself. It's for the techy that can afford to ball up $100,000 and not really be hurt. It's cool, I certainly would like a ride / seat time in it, but it's not something I would own. I would much rather have the previously mentioned Miata, a trailer and Sportsmobile to haul it to various tracks for long weekends of fun. That said, I'm glad that something like this exists.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:16 PM   #10
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How much weight does it really add though, is the question? With the electronic racks and throttles already in there, I imagine just like a hardened ARM mobo and some wires is all that would be needed to run it.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:27 PM   #11
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What I am saying is the cars do not need the lane assist or braking assist anything. I realize the weight penalty has already been paid, but it does not mean I was happy paying for it.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:11 PM   #12
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What I am saying is the cars do not need the lane assist or braking assist anything. I realize the weight penalty has already been paid, but it does not mean I was happy paying for it.
I agree generally, I won't trust lane keeping/autonomous stuff for 10 or 20 years, at all. Braking assist I'm less concerned about, especially the systems that just precharge the brake lines instead of actually braking for you, but considering those features are usually bundled with lane keeping, I won't be buying them anytime soon. I was just commenting as to weight, and I don't even know if the electric steering systems even added any; logically I would imagine they are lighter than a hydraulic system, I'm just not a fan until they can perfectly replicate a good manual rack. Ditto the feel of electronic throttle.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Yes, yes, that was not my point bud.

I know throttle drive by wire is commonplace
and electric power steering is gaining ground quickly
But auto braking is not everywhere yet.

My point is that the fact that they are getting common place is not a good thing if you want a car for the track. You are carrying weight you do not need. If driving on a track is your hearts desire, then a car without any of that is far better. That was the gist of my point. I know we have started down this safety nazi rabbit hole where the car thinks more than the driver, who cannot be bothered to pay attention. I am not ready to hand my driving life over to software engineers. I feel an article on my website practically writing itself right now
Great then realize, in all those Tesla threads where you go off, some of us, we just like electric propulsion. Power. We like they use 100% American, US made power. That can be solar in my case with my solar panels on the house, hydro, wind, or coal, whatever. None of the fuel to power the damn things is going to the middle east. Very much like, hell I love that. And like the lack of ICE maintenance. I live for the day the United States, and Canada, North America, are both energy independent. We can flip the bird and chunk the deuce at everyone. Self sufficiency.

If I buy my Model 3 (doubtful at this stage), guess what I won't be buying on it? Auto-pilot. I've never had any interest in it. I've been interested in the performance, AWD, and the plug in nature (fuel it myself at home). If I could get a model 3 without lane keep assist, adaptive cruise, automatic braking, etc, I certainly would. Don't want or have a need for any of that sheot because when I drive, I drive. Some loud tunes and driving, SIPDE always. If I jack with the phone at all, I press "accept" on some sort of headunit or press a button saying "Dial X." This automation is not anything I've ever asked for or been interested in. I like to drive and be in charge, not a computer. There are many cases of Honda's application of these technologies not working currently. Many people have had their vehicles do a rapid stop where they didn't want it to. That spells getting rear ended to me, no. Not interested in it. But out of any automaker, I'd trust Tesla's implementation on these types of systems before anyone else.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:56 PM   #14
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Included with every purchase, Audi will also pay for a teenager to bang your wife for you, for one year, after which, it's 39.99 per month.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:58 PM   #15
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Included with every purchase, Audi will also pay for a teenager to bang your wife for you, for one year, after which, it's 39.99 per month.
That's not a bad deal, assuming Audi picks up all associated legacy costs.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:28 PM   #16
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That's not a bad deal, assuming Audi picks up all associated legacy costs.
Lol, just lol. "Legacy costs."

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