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Old 03-13-2018, 03:50 AM   #1
ProjectN64
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Default 2005 STI Compression/leakdown results

Hi all, just got a compression and leakdown done and these are the results i got. on the invoice it mentions that "leakage verified going passed piston rings causing excessive oil consumption" "recommends shortblock replacement" How exactly can this be verified? and should i go through with the teardown? i have a third party warranty and want to make sure something will come up damaged or defective inside the engine, warranty company has been good and has covered alot but i dont want to be stuck with a giant 7k bill because nothing was found. Friend told me that most likely rings are bad or cross hatches on cylinder walls are gone. The engine has been consuming oil, 65k miles all stock. bought at 57k miles

Compression: 1.150 psi 2. 144 psi 3. 149psi 4. 150 psi

Leakdown: 10's all around except for cylinder #2 25% leakdown

Tested at 90psi
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Last edited by ProjectN64; 03-14-2018 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:11 AM   #2
rtv900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectN64 View Post

Compression: 1.150 psi 2. 144 psi 3. 149psi 4. 150 psi

Leakdown: 10's all around except for cylinder #2 25% leakdown
a) if you have a 3rd party warranty don't even waste your time making the phone call, you will be paying. Don't throw your money away next time.

b) consuming how much oil? It's a decade old, any 10 year old car consumes some oil.

c) compression looks fine, where's the issue?

d) what was leak down pressure done at? That should be your first question as the results can change 100% from value to value if you alter the pressure

e) leakdown doesn't look bad anyway, and EVERY engine has leak down past rings, EVERY ONE, they have to.

Does it run poorly?
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:44 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
a) if you have a 3rd party warranty don't even waste your time making the phone call, you will be paying. Don't throw your money away next time.

b) consuming how much oil? It's a decade old, any 10 year old car consumes some oil.

c) compression looks fine, where's the issue?

d) what was leak down pressure done at? That should be your first question as the results can change 100% from value to value if you alter the pressure

e) leakdown doesn't look bad anyway, and EVERY engine has leak down past rings, EVERY ONE, they have to.

Does it run poorly?
Thanks for the reply, it may come to a surprise but that warranty company has covered almost 3k in repairs from my dealer. Leaky cam seals,steering pump,steering rack, wheel bearings all around,and valve cover gaskets. I have faith in them but don't wanna be stuck with a teardown bill if technician finds nothing. I agree compression looks fine, my worry was the leakdown with cylinder 2 being at 25% with rest at 10's, i should have added it was done at 90psi. it consumes about 1.2 quarts every 1k miles, seems to run fine just thinking about if my engine is ready to go, my warranty is up in two years.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:51 AM   #4
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well a quart + every 1000 is pretty bad, so that adds some context.

But your concern is correct because there is nothing objective to warrant a new motor, and anybody on the hook would say that immediately.
90psi is a reasonable pressure for leakdown test, and 25% is kind of borderline for a problem. It's not fantastic but certainly not glaring issue territory.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:53 AM   #5
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well a quart + every 1000 is pretty bad, so that adds some context.

But your concern is correct because there is nothing objective to warrant a new motor, and anybody on the hook would say that immediately.
90psi is a reasonable pressure for leakdown test, and 25% is kind of borderline for a problem. It's not fantastic but certainly not glaring issue territory.

What year is this car?
it's a 2005
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:03 AM   #6
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What are the chances technician finds nothing when tearing engine down? i see this as early signs of engine going bad, i could be wrong
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:10 PM   #7
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maybe a broken or chipped ring
maybe nothing very objective

maybe your warranty doesn't cover rings, who knows
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:27 PM   #8
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maybe a broken or chipped ring
maybe nothing very objective

maybe your warranty doesn't cover rings, who knows
warranty covers rings,bearings,seals,valves, and few other things. You would just drive it as-is? not sure what else to have looked at before tearing it down
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ProjectN64 View Post
warranty covers rings,bearings,seals,valves, and few other things. You would just drive it as-is? not sure what else to have looked at before tearing it down
well that's good, a ring may be broken.

but me? if I had a 10 year old STI that was burning a lot of oil and running mostly normally otherwise yeah I probably would just drive it because it wouldn't be worth it to me to do all that work to essentially restore that vehicle. I'd pick something else if I were going to do that.
But that's just me. If you like the vehicle enough then it's worth it.
Obviously the problem will only get worse so if you really want to get it back up to par and keep it long term sure go for it.

Expecting the warranty to find objective evidence that is legit covered is a longshot in my opinion.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:57 PM   #10
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Is there a way to contact the warranty company to see if they'll cover it? I've never had a non-factory extended warranty so don't know first hand but I'd think you could provide the existing details and ask.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
well that's good, a ring may be broken.

but me? if I had a 10 year old STI that was burning a lot of oil and running mostly normally otherwise yeah I probably would just drive it because it wouldn't be worth it to me to do all that work to essentially restore that vehicle. I'd pick something else if I were going to do that.
But that's just me. If you like the vehicle enough then it's worth it.
Obviously the problem will only get worse so if you really want to get it back up to par and keep it long term sure go for it.

Expecting the warranty to find objective evidence that is legit covered is a longshot in my opinion.
cool, going to go through with the teardown hoping something comes up. Don't plan on selling the car so i'd say it's worth it. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Is there a way to contact the warranty company to see if they'll cover it? I've never had a non-factory extended warranty so don't know first hand but I'd think you could provide the existing details and ask.
yes but warranty company can't really say much since something has to be damaged, i have to go through teardown and see what shows up. Then warranty will cover parts and labor depending on what is found, if nothing is found i pay out of pocket
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Old 04-28-2018, 03:13 AM   #12
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UPDATE

So dealer took apart the engine and discovered that cylinder 4 piston had ring land cracks, i asked the service advisor if i could come pick up the Intake manifold to repaint it to which he says he can but it's going to be 2 hours of labor ($370) to remove it. I told the dealer i wanted them to tear the whole engine down to see any problems. What did he mean by this? the valves,head,manifold wasn't taken apart? you would think dealer would have inspected those too. i asked the advisor about if the head was pressure checked and he said it had a leakdown of 40%. That's not good right? my warranty covers alot of stuff including valves,head, so on. What do i need to be clear about with the advisor when i come in monday assuming they're just replacing shortblock? what else needs to be looked at,replaced, or considered? i've got a exedy oem clutch,fuel lines,and coolant hoses coming in mail so time isn't much an issue

Last edited by ProjectN64; 04-28-2018 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:45 PM   #13
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Frikkin really?!?!
Not at you, the shop.

If they pulled the engine apart to check things, the intake manifold is sitting on a bench somewhere. Removal cost?!?!

Frankly, if it was me, I would just wander into the shop to the bay my car was in and say, "BTW, while it's apart, I want this intake painted. What do I sign to remove the removed part????"
Dude, it's sitting on a bench or in the car if they rolled it out to make room for other jobs.
Ask the service manager WHY you have to pay removal when it's already removed?

Sounds like you shouldn't deal with them down the road......

Sorta like when someone states, "replace my belts when doing the timing belt" and they get a labor charge.
Sheesh, the belts have to come off to DO the timing belt. Labor to reinstall the old belts is the same as a new belt, so only a parts price increase.....

And shops wonder why peeps think they are rip off artists.
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Old 04-28-2018, 05:28 PM   #14
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Frikkin really?!?!
Not at you, the shop.

If they pulled the engine apart to check things, the intake manifold is sitting on a bench somewhere. Removal cost?!?!

Frankly, if it was me, I would just wander into the shop to the bay my car was in and say, "BTW, while it's apart, I want this intake painted. What do I sign to remove the removed part????"
Dude, it's sitting on a bench or in the car if they rolled it out to make room for other jobs.
Ask the service manager WHY you have to pay removal when it's already removed?

Sounds like you shouldn't deal with them down the road......

Sorta like when someone states, "replace my belts when doing the timing belt" and they get a labor charge.
Sheesh, the belts have to come off to DO the timing belt. Labor to reinstall the old belts is the same as a new belt, so only a parts price increase.....

And shops wonder why peeps think they are rip off artists.
It makes no sense, I'm going to talk to the manager if this knucklehead expects me to pay that fee just to remove the manifold. They've been coming up on so much money from my warranty company and still wanna penny pinch me. They didn't charge extra to replace timing belt when cam seals were done, and they're not charging me to replace clutch while there, something is off. So you think there's no way the manifold isn't taken apart?
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Old 04-28-2018, 06:55 PM   #15
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he's correct, the manifold has to be removed to replace a short block or even get to the pistons. they full of it. also, don't paint the manifold yourself, bring it to get it powder coated, you'll be much more happier with the end result, plus theres some really awesome colors, so down the road when you have to use brake cleaner or gasoline spills in the engine bay nothing happens to the paint on the manifold.
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Old 04-28-2018, 09:56 PM   #16
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he's correct, the manifold has to be removed to replace a short block or even get to the pistons. they full of it. also, don't paint the manifold yourself, bring it to get it powder coated, you'll be much more happier with the end result, plus theres some really awesome colors, so down the road when you have to use brake cleaner or gasoline spills in the engine bay nothing happens to the paint on the manifold.
cool thanks, i looked on yelp and found some places that do powdercoating i imagine they can still replicate the wrinkle red finish? was hoping to get the manifold, i'll figure it all out monday
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:05 PM   #17
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You guys do realize when you remove those manifolds for a short block job you DO NOT strip them down as far as required to paint/powder coat them? I can assure you the charge is to pull all the plumbing, hoses, solenoids, throttle body, TGVs, etcetera that DO NOT get removed during a short block job. The shop is replacing a short block for a warranty company - this ain't building a track car or restoration work.

If I were working on this car and the OP asked to take the manifold and get it painted - YES - I would charge him to strip the manifold and reassemble. I would not trust that he could strip down all the 10 year old heat aged hoses and plastics without breaking something, creating leaks, and get it back together correctly without fuel or vacuum leaks. Leaks I would be stuck chasing down and fixing because I was the guy doing the repair.
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
You guys do realize when you remove those manifolds for a short block job you DO NOT strip them down as far as required to paint/powder coat them? I can assure you the charge is to pull all the plumbing, hoses, solenoids, throttle body, TGVs, etcetera that DO NOT get removed during a short block job. The shop is replacing a short block for a warranty company - this ain't building a track car or restoration work.

If I were working on this car and the OP asked to take the manifold and get it painted - YES - I would charge him to strip the manifold and reassemble. I would not trust that he could strip down all the 10 year old heat aged hoses and plastics without breaking something, creating leaks, and get it back together correctly without fuel or vacuum leaks. Leaks I would be stuck chasing down and fixing because I was the guy doing the repair.

Elbert Bass, you are correct.
All any of us can do is comment on what the OP stated......whether or not it is his interpretation or exactly what the shop stated.
Yes, if he wanted a STRIPPED, READY TO PAINT intake manifold, yes, I agree, there is labor involved.
If he just wanted to pick up the intake manifold to prep for paint and the shop quoted an "uninstall cost", then I call BS.

It's the Internet, if you get close to 50% of the story, you're doing well.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:35 PM   #19
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Just got off the phone with dealer, seem'd to be miscommunication with advisor. Elbert Bass and Charlie are correct. The two hours of labor ($370) was to strip the manifold of the components. Is that a fair price? was thinking of talking to manager later seeing if i can talk him down to maybe the price of one hour of labor. As far as the top end, the advisor said the head and valves look ok. Should i insist on getting the head resurfaced and maybe get new valve seals? What else should i look into getting replaced? thanks all for the information
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectN64 View Post
cool thanks, i looked on yelp and found some places that do powdercoating i imagine they can still replicate the wrinkle red finish? was hoping to get the manifold, i'll figure it all out monday
VHT wrinkle red looks pretty close to the JDM STi manifolds. I painted mine and it's holding up great after two years. The factory JDM STi wrinkle red manifolds eventually flake off a bit of paint anyway. It's all in the prep work. It's also way cheaper than powdercoating. Nothing is wrong with powdercoating it though, and it will be better than a DIY job, but thought I would mention that you can do wrinkle red pretty easy yourself.

Stripping the parts off the manifold would take about 45 minutes or so if you know what you are doing. It's really easy. But I can see a shop charging two hours of labor to do it.

Your heads have fairly low mileage on them. If everything looks great there isn't any need to replace everything. Have them check them for flatness and if they are out of spec, then get them milled.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:27 AM   #21
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OK, fair enough, makes sense (although a bit high).

Your choice on picking it up, stripping parts off (lots of pictures) painting and then reassemble.
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