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Old 07-12-2018, 05:44 AM   #1
VinceS2
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Member#: 353338
Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Newcastle Australia
Vehicle:
2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
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Unhappy It was a lot of effort to stuff this build up so bad; Eek, What Have I done???

What do you have to have stuffed up on a build to get this kind of smoke out of an '04 sTi motor?
https://www.vrdriversim.com.au/SmokieSTi.mp4 Dunno, but I've done it! Ideas?

On about 10% throttle and 15psi boost on the little 'squirt' out of the roundabout. There is about a 300m discontinuity after the traffic lights, 'cause I rang my son in the following car!

This is a follow-on from an earlier wtf water leak build topic: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2873263, but all the 'prattle' in there is mostly irrelevant. This was a full head service, ring replacement and oil catch can addition (putting all vents to PCV direct, via the can). Bores were great and new ring gaps well in spec. I spaced the gaps evenly around pistons on assy. Seems to go a lot better. Done 170 miles so far, but reluctant to use much WOT as initially had valve cover leaks on exhaust making smoke every set of lights (like engine on fire!), so siliconed them on, and now the smoke out the back has ramped up. Very disappointing....

Do I just need to find some quiet out-of-the-way location and flog the bejeezus out of it? I am yet to properly 'put the boot in' due to concerns a sudden bang may follow! So, is there a known stuff-up going on here?

Exhaust temps are fine; AFR is a bit rich as I bumped fuel pressure up 5psi until get it re-tuned, then will go with whatever the tuner says. But don't want to get that done if the thing has to come out for more work.

I have fully rebuilt over 30 engines over the years with only great results. This is my first boxer and it is looking like a stuff-up. Can anyone solidly 'give me the news' and put me out of my misery? Thank you.

-Full 2004 STi (Aus spec) engine & drivetrain mechanicals c/w TMIC
-Kinugawa 5+5 Billet TD05H-18G 7cm Housing Turbocharger with red 24psi actuator spring.
-ViPEC V7-9 ecu (updated to the latest firmware)
-APS High Flow Cold Air Intake
-Walbro high flow fuel pump
-3" XForce turbo back exhaust
-Fidanza Aluminium flywheel LAF8006 (5kg)
-RPM2133SSCC Stage 2 Clutch, pressure plate, throwout brg & spigot brg.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:51 AM   #2
Charlie-III
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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1998 Legacy 2.5GT
Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT

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Check for oil in the IC and intake manifold.
Do a leakdown test.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:47 AM   #3
VinceS2
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2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
gold

Have a Nice Day? Oil pathways and compression tests...

Oh yes, forgot to say - I did a 'mind wipe' on a little factoid, since I struggle to believe it, but the facts never lie. Do they?

What got the rebuild to happen was a flawed belief I had a head gasket failure (it was a hose) and the certain knowledge the compression was low. Just before strip-down comp was 135, 131, 132, 127 psi for 1-4 cyls respectively. Now it is 115, 132, 120, 128. So the left bank is identical and right is down a bit, how weird is that? The gauge and testing method are good, I am certain of this. Did this test when I pulled the valve covers to seal them up 20 miles ago. Don't regard the rings as properly bedded in, so ignoring the numbers for now. But facts is facts!

The exhaust valves were clearly leaking before, being full width contact seats with a black grainy 'about to chip out chunks' look to them. The car is clearly going better now, despite that annoying 'nuffin-changed' factoid.

Re oil, happy to look (haven't) but know there is no point as no pathway to get it upstream of manifold now, apart from a failed turbo and it was in great condition when inspected closely during the refresh. The reason I did the can was that I saw the turbo inlet and IC were both coated in shiny black oil when I pulled the engine out.

One thing I wonder is with the can connected to the manifold and undoubtedly the PCV is shut on boost, so what is that doing? Pressurising the covers / can? I am thinking I will do a trial with the can vented to atmosphere and see if that changes anything. And run a hose out the engine bay to where I can see it - maybe tape a plastic bag to the end and see how quickly it inflates...?

I do have a leakdown tester, but it seems like a pretty useless gizmo as I've never had it tell me a story worth listening to. Whereas compression tests wet & dry usually give the game away. I didn't bother with a wet test this time. On previous wet tests the numbers only go up 15psi so that was valves for sure. Guess a wet one would be worth doing just in case I took out a perfectly good set of rings and put some total duds back in the hole.

In 2015 I did a leakdown test and got 20%, 19%, 20%, 19% and compression was 130, 133, 130, 135. Stuffed if I know what decisions I could make around the leakdown results, but compression figures, different story! Could be ignorance by me too, please let me know about that one... Seriously!
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:35 AM   #4
VinceS2
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Location: Newcastle Australia
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2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
gold

Unhappy

Hmm, just read the catch can FAQ again and I have stuffed it up. (https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=754710).

I have t'd up the two bigger valve cover outlets and the cranc case vent and run to one inlet of the can, and t'd up the two smaller breathers from the valve covers and run to the other can inlet, and the outlet goes to the PCV on the manifold. I have blocked the two turbo feed pipe inlets. This seems to have been a mistake! But it looks pretty neat, I thought...
Need to think about that one some more...
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:44 AM   #5
Charlie-III
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1998 Legacy 2.5GT
Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT

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Wet compression test tells you about rings.
Leakdown is a nice followup if you have some low numbers. You can tell if it's rings, valves, or a combination.

Oil in the intake or IC could point you to turbo seals or PCV system.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:52 AM   #6
VinceS2
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2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
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I am pretty convinced it is my crap plumbing on the oil can. On boost, the crankcase gets fully sealed the way I have it. It's a stuffup! Can probably test just by leaving the drain pipe open. But it's wrong and I see that now, and a great chance I am blowing oil back into the cylinders on the suction stroke. May not explain the wispy emissions on light driving, but a clear fault that can be remedied and see what happens next...
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:55 AM   #7
CosmoTheCat
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98 My FMIC
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You'd think your dipstick would pop out if your crankcase was getting pressurized too much.

Leakdown tells you where the air is going - intake valves, exhaust valves, rings, (or cracks leading to those areas).
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:50 AM   #8
VinceS2
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Location: Newcastle Australia
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2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
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OK, thanks for that niggling guys, I deserved it! Googled instructions to interpret leakdown test results and found this: http://dannysengineportal.com/cylind...test-findings/ - very instructive!

I obviously bought the gizmo and didn't think too much about it and missed an obvious chance there. But I have used a comp tester for 40+ years, buying a better one every time getting in there is harder, eg Subie which spawned the last update! So I will fix the oil catch can plumbing on the weekend and see what we have there, then put this on my 'things to do' list, as soon as I am happy the thing might actually be run in, without any weird stuff. Plus find out where that annoying 'ignored factoid' is really parked.

Re the dipstick, good idea. But it is stuck in there pretty damn tight, however you would expect some seeping around the edge. We'll see. I'll get the can kicked down the road a bit and report back...
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:40 PM   #9
VinceS2
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Well, it's the turbo. Dunno what yet as stopped for a cuppa! It is like plenty of oil is arriving but it is not getting out. There was a good puddle in the discharge to FMIC and right through it, so it will get a bath in the parts cleaner tank!

I am presuming I need to pull the turbo to figure out why I have this internal leak. I had it on the engine as an assy when refitting so can't imagine I kinked the drain hose, but its an obvious suspect.

Damn, just when I thought I only had a plumbing job to do, which I do, it just got harder! Is there any particular thing that turbos are known to do to leak this badly? It was fine before, so it has to be a touch-it-and-eff-it issue, which I am usually pretty good at avoiding. Oh well, we all stuff up sometimes. But this is the third one on this build and I usually get zero! (the first was just replacing the 3/4 worn hd clutch plate while I was in there; took a while to wear enough of the hairs off the new plate to actually be able to select a gear, 'stubborn' got me there on that one!).
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:13 PM   #10
VinceS2
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Newcastle Australia
Vehicle:
2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
gold

Default

Well, just put it on stands, inspected drain pipe, all good. Then had an 'of course, you dic' moment. I am pressurising the return line with blow-by from my poorly run in rings when the PCV seals and only dipstick hole remains (stem is dry, so guess it just sticks in there and can't get enough flow to drag oil up). Also I have not been on boost for more than a few secs at a time, that 'bang worry' thing...

The IC is having parts wash slowly circulated through it; I am having lunch, then this sucker is getting sorted! Gotta love those 'just when I thought I had made a mistake, turns out I was mistaken' moments. Let's see how it plays out...

Don't you love in-the-moment 'joy of discovery' reports like this? It's OK to say no, prob prefer just smirk quietly and go read the next one!
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:41 AM   #11
VinceS2
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Location: Newcastle Australia
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2005 EVO 8 WRX + STi
gold

Default Fully sorted, Phew!!!

Plumbed the catch can up properly and instant no smoke, you beauty! A quick puff on start to clear residual parts cleaner, then nothing.

Well, almost nothing. The harder I drive it the more residual stuff gets blown out, prob take 200 miles to properly clear.

When the crankcase was being pressurised it pushed that much oil in the tmic it managed to leak out the connection of the hose, which is a bit of a worry, enough to make a proper pool and run down engine side. 25psi is a fair bit of force and that didn't pop the hose, yet it could leak, overnight presumably. I ended up sorting a tidy reliable and easy to do way to get the can hooked up and ensure turbo hose done properly; might do a pic write-up later as the catch can faq is somewhat confusing, but simple enough when you understand it...
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:08 AM   #12
CosmoTheCat
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98 My FMIC
Is bigger than yours.

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Good stuff. Glad you got it sorted without too much expense.
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