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Old 03-17-2019, 08:48 PM   #1
ilovedemhotrides
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Default Budget build - anything stick out that I need for 500+whp On 93

Hey fellow Subaru fanatics,

Currently building up my 04 Sti after a rod knock. I am doing a budget build and am in the process of it all. I just yanked the engine and am evaluating the short block.

I have an FP black HTZ, 1000cc side feeds, Walbro 255, equal length header, full exhaust (Catless), blitz fmic, TGV deletes, ebcs, intake.

Do you see anything else that I will NEED to make 500 - 550whp. I know the turbo is fine for this and I am getting my block built with forged rods and Internals. - essentially a stage 2 + short block but pieced together myself to save some money.

Should I be good with the stock cams and fuel pump?

Anything else I should account for? I will need a new tune for sure.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:26 AM   #2
nasiocnerd
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first off, I don't think a 255 lph will get 500-550hp, and I think the best way to safely get that power would be with a e85, which will require 1300cc injectors
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasiocnerd View Post
first off, I don't think a 255 lph will get 500-550hp, and I think the best way to safely get that power would be with a e85, which will require 1300cc injectors
Agree with what Nasiocnerd is saying.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:06 AM   #4
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Yea I think 500+ is actually a lot more power than you think. You could probably push 400 without a ton of work, but if you don't want to use e85 than I'm pretty sure it's going to cost you.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:10 AM   #5
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Also, make sure you have strong head studs like APR 625s (if you don't have some already). Unless you like your heads lifting
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:55 AM   #6
ilovedemhotrides
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Originally Posted by nasiocnerd View Post
Also, make sure you have strong head studs like APR 625s (if you don't have some already). Unless you like your heads lifting


Yeah I do have arp head studs already. I did the headgasket 3 years ago for this exact reason.

Can I reuse them? As they are only 3 years (Aprox 9,000 miles) old and look to he in good shape
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by nasiocnerd View Post
first off, I don't think a 255 lph will get 500-550hp, and I think the best way to safely get that power would be with a e85, which will require 1300cc injectors


Noted.
So I should also look into getting a higher flowing pump. Maybe a 340?
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Nfaber View Post
Yea I think 500+ is actually a lot more power than you think. You could probably push 400 without a ton of work, but if you don't want to use e85 than I'm pretty sure it's going to cost you.


I made 380whp on stock internals at like 22 psi. I am hoping to make a lot more than that with my built motor lol.

Just to be clear I am talking a dynonet not a mustang dyno
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ilovedemhotrides View Post
Noted.
So I should also look into getting a higher flowing pump. Maybe a 340?
I would say at the very least 340. Most setups with DW300 or AEM340 are maxing out before 500hp. From my conversation with tuners, they recommended the walbro 450 for any target at or above 500hp.

As for the head studs, from what I have been told, they are easily reusable (I reused mine). Good luck with the build!
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:09 PM   #10
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500WHP on 1,000CC injectors puts you pretty close to max safe duty cycle, you may want to step into an ID1300 or FIC1200 for some more head room.

I'd definitely recommend a fuel pump in the 320-340lph range as well. Keep in mind that flow drops as pressure rises.

I believe most of the bigger engine builders will recommend a closed deck block in the 500-550whp range as well.

Probably need a 4 bar map and you don't need cams but a stage 1 cam would make it easier to achieve your goals.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
500WHP on 1,000CC injectors puts you pretty close to max safe duty cycle, you may want to step into an ID1300 or FIC1200 for some more head room.

I'd definitely recommend a fuel pump in the 320-340lph range as well. Keep in mind that flow drops as pressure rises.

I believe most of the bigger engine builders will recommend a closed deck block in the 500-550whp range as well.

Probably need a 4 bar map and you don't need cams but a stage 1 cam would make it easier to achieve your goals.


Appreciate the reply brother. To get cams or not to get cams.... Do you think if I stay stock cams I should upgrade the springs / retainers ?
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:31 PM   #12
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It definitely wouldnít hurt and provides reasonably priced peace of mind so you wonít have to worry about it if you intend to spin the motor higher than the original redline.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:05 AM   #13
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With that turbo, fuel and injectors you won’t hit 500whp. It will get you close maybe 450 but not 500. I’m going through this exact issue right now with my new engine. You want 500whp, you need e85 or some kind of race fuel. Pump gas just won’t do it. I’ve been going back and forth with the guys at IAG for a while trying to figure out how I can make 500 without e85.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:58 AM   #14
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With that turbo, fuel and injectors you wonít hit 500whp. It will get you close maybe 450 but not 500. Iím going through this exact issue right now with my new engine. You want 500whp, you need e85 or some kind of race fuel. Pump gas just wonít do it. Iíve been going back and forth with the guys at IAG for a while trying to figure out how I can make 500 without e85.


Ah man that stinks. I guess 450ish isnít end of the world. Stinks I donít have e85 within 20 miles of me
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother EddieJ. View Post
With that turbo, fuel and injectors you wonít hit 500whp. It will get you close maybe 450 but not 500. Iím going through this exact issue right now with my new engine. You want 500whp, you need e85 or some kind of race fuel. Pump gas just wonít do it. Iíve been going back and forth with the guys at IAG for a while trying to figure out how I can make 500 without e85.
5 gallon pails of TORCO octane boost is cheap. 3oz per gallon of gas put you over 100 octane. Easily 500 whp capable. Add a dash of meth spray and you're golden.

Even if I had e-85 I'd still run the torco and and a small squirt of wiper fluid.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:23 PM   #16
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In before the 'why is my car overheating?' post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovedemhotrides View Post
Ah man that stinks. I guess 450ish isn’t end of the world. Stinks I don’t have e85 within 20 miles of me
350 whp isn't the 'end of the world' on an older GD chassis.

500+ whp on 93 octane isn't going to be a realistic goal with what you've posted. E85, maybe - but you'd need more fueling.

I'll put it this way - you start off by saying 'budget build' and then say '500 - 550 whp'. These don't go together.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
In before the 'why is my car overheating?' post...



350 whp isn't the 'end of the world' on an older GD chassis.

500+ whp on 93 octane isn't going to be a realistic goal with what you've posted. E85, maybe - but you'd need more fueling.

I'll put it this way - you start off by saying 'budget build' and then say '500 - 550 whp'. These don't go together.
This 100% . . . It sounds like you just need to build around what you have and see where the whp ends up. Otherwise this will NOT end up being a budget build.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:42 AM   #18
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This 100% . . . It sounds like you just need to build around what you have and see where the whp ends up. Otherwise this will NOT end up being a budget build.


Yeah I guess youíre right. I was under the impression with a built bottom end and full bolt ons with an FP black 500whp would be no problem.

Let me rephrase my question. Given my goal to make some serious power for a fun weekend car, what is the biggest hold up or bottleneck ? Sounds like fueling. So adding in some sort of meth solution might be the key to free up some HP. Can also run bigger injectors than the 1,000cc I currently have but then I need to probably look into the conversion to top feeds.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:11 AM   #19
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Who is tuning your car on 1k side feeds?
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:19 PM   #20
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Generally speaking, the bottleneck limitations on all Subaru cars will be fueling and turbo until you break the motor.

Pick a power target, size your fueling (this is easy). Still in your budget? Good - move on to the turbo.

Find a turbo that meets the same flow ratings for your goal and figure out the cost of installing it (including manifold + wastegate). Budget for the intercooler if you need it. Still in your budget? Good - move on to the motor.

As soon as you run out of money, go back to the start with a lower goal.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
Generally speaking, the bottleneck limitations on all Subaru cars will be fueling and turbo until you break the motor.

Pick a power target, size your fueling (this is easy). Still in your budget? Good - move on to the turbo.

Find a turbo that meets the same flow ratings for your goal and figure out the cost of installing it (including manifold + wastegate). Budget for the intercooler if you need it. Still in your budget? Good - move on to the motor.

As soon as you run out of money, go back to the start with a lower goal.
Also consider buying some of these things from members on here, a lot of us have a LOT of old parts. LOL
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post

I'll put it this way - you start off by saying 'budget build' and then say '500 - 550 whp'. These don't go together.
what, 200hp per liter isn't budget build territory?
sounds realistic to me

spend budget
make 500hp on dyno once
drive car twice
shred motor
start new budget
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Old 03-23-2019, 10:50 AM   #23
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Maybe a good water meth system running 93 pump gas could get your there if E85 is not an option?
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:23 AM   #24
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https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2429748

Here’s Juan’s old FP black thread. I would say it’s kind of a budget build, he’s running E85 but the timing is low for the first page dyno graph. He’s even doing this on a tmic. Almost hits 500whp with low timing.
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:47 AM   #25
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Budget, 500whp, and pump don't belong in the same sentence. ESPESSIALLY on a non-closed deck, and then on a stock location exhaust housing. You're setting yourself up for failure. Been there, done that, cracked liners. This build plan wouldn't last a few thousand miles. If you truly want 500whp on pump gas, you need a rotated 3582 or bigger. Your fuel system isn't going to cut it on any fuel. Back to the drawing bored on this one. Your cheapest bet if you want to retain that turbo and MUCH safer route is switching to top feed, buying some ID1300X's, a Walbro 450 (an AEM340 will do it on the edge), and going flex fuel. You'll make your 550whp and have some longevity.
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