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Old 08-05-2019, 12:38 PM   #1
pearson222
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Default New build - consuming oil and crazy FBK/FKL

The car is an 06 STi with an Outfront Closed Deck block built by Craig Woolman from Woolman Performance. The heads were rebuilt with BC 272 cams and new valves, springs, guides, etc. Spun a bearing on my last built block at 10k miles and am out of funds from this last rebuild to possibly have to do it over again. This last round was a no expense spared rebuild as an attempt to avoid having to be in this exact situation.

I got the engine assembled, installed, and broken in but have been experiencing weird FKL and FBK that after many hours of troubleshooting with my tuner seem to be noise and not actual knock. These events occur on both 91 and e85. I have about 3,000 miles on the engine now and it has also become apparent that the engine is also consuming a ton of oil.

Engine break in:
I installed the engine, flashed my break-in map and filled it up with Castrol GTX conventional 10W-30. Started up & ran for 25-30 minutes at 2k RPMs. Drained the oil, changed the filter, and filled it back up. Lots of easy - normal daily driving with tons of engine braking. Tune limited RPMís @ 4500 for the first 1000 miles. Changed oil again @ 150 miles. Began getting into boost under 10 psi with a 7 to 10psi pull from 2k to 4500 in 3rd or 4th once a day, easy driving otherwise. Varying RPM, engine brake etc. The normal break in routine plus the pulls. At 1000 miles removed the 4500 RPM limiter and started beating on it a little harder but still keeping boost capped @ 15psi. I broke in my last EJ257 that had perfect compression so I know the drill.

The crazy FBL and FKL values have been present since the first start and first logs. These events occur mostly in the 2-4k RPM range with random high rpm -2 FBK events. I was able to dig up an old post outlining how to tap into the knock sensor for monitoring while tuning and not interfere with the ECU or signal. I tapped into my sensor and recorded a bunch of conditions. There is distinct noise around 2000 - 5000 RPM but does not have the same crackle/pinging sound that is typical of detonation. I am hoping someone might be able to help determine if this is detonation or noise from some other source.

https://soundcloud.com/subaru25/log7-clip

What is more concerning is that the engine has been consuming quite a bit of oil. At the first 1000 mile oil change I had added nearly 2 qts over those 1000 miles. I had heard the break-in process can consume oil early on and was hoping that was my case. Over the next 1000 miles I have consumed at least 2.5 qts which is insane. 500 miles ago I changed over to a 40 weight (Rotella 15W-40) and it has slowed my consumption down a bit but still nowhere near healthy levels.

Compression & Leakdown results:

Cyl #1 = 134psi - 5% leakdown
Cyl #2 = 133psi - 7% leakdown
Cyl #3 = 131psi - 5% leakdown
Cyl #4 = 133psi - 6% leakdown

I did the compression test on a warm engine and by the time I got to the leakdown test it had cooled down quite a bit. Either way, there arenít any red flags that are jumping out at me from the results.

- NO external leaks
- NO smoke on startup after sitting
- NO smoke on boost or WOT
- NO smoke on deceleration
- NO smoke or blowing out oil filler cap (more suction than blowing @ idle which is weird)
- NO oil in my turbo inlet where the AOS hose connects.
- Pulled the plugs and no signs of burning oil


I am at a loss for where to go from here. Any suggestions/feedback would be very much appreciated.
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:57 PM   #2
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The no external leaks and no oil coming from the AOS (what type of AOS?) would make me pull the header and down pipe to look for oil residue there. It doesn't matter if you think it's not smoking out the exhaust or not. Look for wet residue there. If the header is dry and it's after the turbo, it's the turbo. If the header is wet then it's something inside the engine. The compression and leak down looks good, but the oil IS going somewhere.

A noisy engine can be a lot of things.

Your car is supposed to have suction from the oil filler cap at idle. It's when it doesn't that you have a problem. The suction says the rings are more fine than not.

Do you have a PTW clearance sheet?
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:58 PM   #3
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oil rings lined up possibly?
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:20 PM   #4
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im going to say you didnt break it in enough. are you still using 10w30 is pretty light for a built engine. I know when I broke my engine in, I went like 2000 miles at no more than 3000 and no boost. constantly varying my rpms. so like I would be in 4th and rev up to 3000 and let the rpms fall off to about 2000. Upo until about 1700miles I was burning a little here and there but now it doenst at all.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:22 PM   #5
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I broke my home built engine in with 10w-30 and I burn very little oil with 26k miles. So the 10w-30 dino is not the issue.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waddlz View Post
I broke my home built engine in with 10w-30 and I burn very little oil with 26k miles. So the 10w-30 dino is not the issue.
may be his tolerances arent as tight as yours, not to mention his compression test is a low on all 4
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
may be his tolerances arent as tight as yours, not to mention his compression test is a low on all 4
true.

his compression isn't that bad. my OEM EJ257 was 125 on all 4, and same with my built block. but I'm at 5500 ft altitude.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
may be his tolerances arent as tight as yours, not to mention his compression test is a low on all 4
It has 272 cams which bring compression down a bit. If it were leaking over 2 qts past the rings I would think it would show on the plugs and be smoking out the oil cap and tailpipe
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:16 PM   #9
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I am also leaning towards the possibility of a bad turbo. I am running an EFR 7163 and popped the vband clamp off the dp and slid it over to get a finger or two in the exhaust side and didnt feel anything wet. However recently I have had an increase in turbo sounds especially low rpm taking off from a stop and louder exhaust note in general. I will take of the exhaust mani and downpipe to inspect valves and turbo next.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
im going to say you didnt break it in enough. are you still using 10w30 is pretty light for a built engine. I know when I broke my engine in, I went like 2000 miles at no more than 3000 and no boost. constantly varying my rpms. so like I would be in 4th and rev up to 3000 and let the rpms fall off to about 2000. Upo until about 1700miles I was burning a little here and there but now it doenst at all.
I always get a kick out of people who say to break in for multiple thousands of miles. While everyone else who uses their cars for motorsports (like myself) break it in on the dyno for about 80 miles while tuning it. So literally, start up, warm up, first oil change to get the assembly lube and such out, then on the dyno where it sees full boost and red line multiple times in the 50-80 miles it's on there, then change to synthetic oil and you're done. No oil usage, no blow by, rings are seated, done.

None of this "it's not broken in enough yet" stuff. Rings are seated most of the way in the first 50-100 miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
may be his tolerances arent as tight as yours, not to mention his compression test is a low on all 4
Compression testers vary. What's more important than numbers is consistency. If my tester says 145 across the board and another tester says 130 across the board on the same engine the point is it's consistent, not that my engine suddenly magically lost 15 psi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pearson222 View Post
It has 272 cams which bring compression down a bit. If it were leaking over 2 qts past the rings I would think it would show on the plugs and be smoking out the oil cap and tailpipe
2 quarts in 1,000 miles "should" show up as carbon fouling on the plugs but not always. Depends on the heat range of the plug and if it's cleaning itself off. Like I said, if the oil isn't leaking out then it's going through the combustion chamber some how so it really doesn't matter if the plugs aren't saying it's obvious....it's still kind of obvious
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:34 PM   #11
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OP, I'm running an EFR 7163 also. what noises are you talking about?

You may need to get another oil restrictor on the turbo. I had to put one on as i was burning oil with excessive oil pressure at the turbo.

but that may be premature.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waddlz View Post
OP, I'm running an EFR 7163 also. what noises are you talking about?
On light throttle you can hear the turbo spool/whistle. It sounds almost like a turbo diesel truck at very low speeds. I was running the turbo on my last block and it did not make this much noise at low rpms.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pearson222 View Post
On light throttle you can hear the turbo spool/whistle. It sounds almost like a turbo diesel truck at very low speeds. I was running the turbo on my last block and it did not make this much noise at low rpms.
interesting

mine has made a ton of noise since I put it on, sounds like a big diesel truck.

Also, my old Gen 1 EFR 6758 made the same noise

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Old 08-06-2019, 11:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
I always get a kick out of people who say to break in for multiple thousands of miles. While everyone else who uses their cars for motorsports (like myself) break it in on the dyno for about 80 miles while tuning it. So literally, start up, warm up, first oil change to get the assembly lube and such out, then on the dyno where it sees full boost and red line multiple times in the 50-80 miles it's on there, then change to synthetic oil and you're done. No oil usage, no blow by, rings are seated, done.

None of this "it's not broken in enough yet" stuff. Rings are seated most of the way in the first 50-100 miles.



Compression testers vary. What's more important than numbers is consistency. If my tester says 145 across the board and another tester says 130 across the board on the same engine the point is it's consistent, not that my engine suddenly magically lost 15 psi.
So.. if you have a new block that is broken in and it reads 110 but its constistant and burning alot of oil... its okay?? hmmm think you have to rethink your train of thought. constistancy is one of the points but its not the only one
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
So.. if you have a new block that is broken in and it reads 110 but its constistant and burning alot of oil... its okay?? hmmm think you have to rethink your train of thought. constistancy is one of the points but its not the only one
I literally said consistency was more important than numbers...which means numbers are still important

If it was 110 across all 4 and there was little suction on the oil fill cap while blowing oil smoke then I'd tend to agree it's a ring pack issue, but 135ish across all 4 is fine assuming stock 8.2 pistons.

You might want to rethink your reading comprehension and debate skills before posting rebuttals in a technical forum.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pearson222 View Post
On light throttle you can hear the turbo spool/whistle. It sounds almost like a turbo diesel truck at very low speeds. I was running the turbo on my last block and it did not make this much noise at low rpms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waddlz View Post
interesting

mine has made a ton of noise since I put it on, sounds like a big diesel truck.

Also, my old Gen 1 EFR 6758 made the same noise

Turbo howl - YouTube
That's the by pass valve spring. There's a higher pressure spring that makes that go away. I had it on my 6758 for a while until I found a note on full-race's website saying the medium pressure one would cause that.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:16 AM   #17
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Pulled the exhaust mani and my exhaust valves are pure WHITE on the drivers side and White with some brown/black on the underside of the valve body.

Cyl 4



Cyl 2



Cyl 3



Cyl 1

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Old 08-07-2019, 11:08 AM   #18
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Driving into work today I got a massive puff of white smoke. Pulled over and oil was pouring onto my uppipe. got it hosed off enough to look under the car and there is a huge chunk missing from the pass side head casing...WTF


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Old 08-07-2019, 11:11 AM   #19
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Well, on the bright side, you found where the oil was leaking from. Could have been cracked and just taken enough heat cycles to finally chunk apart.

****ty that it's a "pull the engine and find a new head casting" fix though.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:14 AM   #20
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Well, on the bright side, you found where the oil was leaking from.
UnfortunatelyI was just under there yesterday and there was no such oil leaking or seeping in the area. Doubtful that it was the cause of oil consumption.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:16 AM   #21
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UnfortunatelyI was just under there yesterday and there was no such oil leaking or seeping in the area. Doubtful that it was the cause of oil consumption.
With a head off it's not hard to pull the pistons out on that side and look at the rings to confirm none of the gaps lined up and that the clearances are still fine. Since the compression was even across the cylinders, if those are fine chances are the others are fine too. The valves look fine and you don't have any obvious oil leaking down there.

Still sucks on the crack/chunk.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:18 AM   #22
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Still sucks on the crack/chunk.
I can agree with that statement 1000%
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
That's the by pass valve spring. There's a higher pressure spring that makes that go away. I had it on my 6758 for a while until I found a note on full-race's website saying the medium pressure one would cause that.
well, the thing is...in that video I had the BPV blocked and was running an HKS BOV(Because ricer)

I run a Forge BPV with a shimmed yellow spring and it still sounds like that.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:51 PM   #24
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on a side note, that sucks about the chunk. I am not sure how that even happened.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:09 PM   #25
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I am not sure how that even happened.
Since the hole lines up with the rear exhaust cam lobe - the only thing that I can think of is that something was loose inside the valve cover and eventually got pinched by the cam lobe and forced out the side of the casing. That would at least explain my FBK/FKL anomalies.
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