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Old 07-18-2017, 05:13 PM   #1
Subarudunk
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Default Thinking about switching from Rotella.

I know there have been a million threads on this, but I have not found a definitive answer or even close to an answer in any of them. I know that Shell has changed the Rotella formula, but I have continued to use it in my 07 Sti.

I recently found a shop near me that carries Motul products in stock and the cost difference in negligible per oil change.

My question is with the formula change am I better of switching to Motul X Clean? I know that it is 5W-30 and not 5W-40. I live in Philadelphia and it never really gets too cold or too hot so I think I should be okay with the 5W-30.

Looking for some opinions.

I will be sending the used Rotella to Blackstone for an analysis to see how it compares to the old stuff.
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subarudunk View Post
I know there have been a million threads on this, but I have not found a definitive answer or even close to an answer in any of them. I know that Shell has changed the Rotella formula, but I have continued to use it in my 07 Sti.

I recently found a shop near me that carries Motul products in stock and the cost difference in negligible per oil change.

My question is with the formula change am I better of switching to Motul X Clean? I know that it is 5W-30 and not 5W-40. I live in Philadelphia and it never really gets too cold or too hot so I think I should be okay with the 5W-30.

Looking for some opinions.

I will be sending the used Rotella to Blackstone for an analysis to see how it compares to the old stuff.
Why wouldn't you switch to M1 0w40 as an alternative? Don't...go...to.. the 5w30, you are asking for problems long term, you bought a performance vehicle, you need to treat it as such and oil is part of that.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:41 AM   #3
Jersey Man10
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I alternate between rotella 5w40 and 0w40 mobil1. Just depends on season.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:26 AM   #4
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Motul has a 5W40 X clean but I wouldn't run a reduced SAPS oil an EJ. I don't see the benefit.

Load up on the ZDDP with Motul X cess 5W40 or spend $25 for a 5 qt jug of Castrol/Mobil 1/Pennzoil 0W40 from Wal Mart.

And FWIW, there's very little difference in the new RT6 5W40 metallic additive package. It no longer meets API Sx gasoline specs but I doubt there's a huge difference in the new oil. Unless you can get Motul X cess for $30 or so I'd run a 0W40 from Wal Mart. You will get your money's worth running X cess though if you have an OCI of 6-8k miles.
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Old 07-19-2017, 09:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Motul has a 5W40 X clean but I wouldn't run a reduced SAPS oil an EJ. I don't see the benefit.

Load up on the ZDDP with Motul X cess 5W40 or spend $25 for a 5 qt jug of Castrol/Mobil 1/Pennzoil 0W40 from Wal Mart.

And FWIW, there's very little difference in the new RT6 5W40 metallic additive package. It no longer meets API Sx gasoline specs but I doubt there's a huge difference in the new oil. Unless you can get Motul X cess for $30 or so I'd run a 0W40 from Wal Mart. You will get your money's worth running X cess though if you have an OCI of 6-8k miles.
I can get Motul X cess fairly cheap as well, but noticed that a lot more shops recommend x clean 5w30 instead. I tried searching Motul X cess and cannot find much about it.
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Old 07-19-2017, 09:59 AM   #6
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Have you ever thought about using redline oil? I use there oil and transmission/diff oil also. I love it better then rotella tbh.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subarudunk View Post
I can get Motul X cess fairly cheap as well, but noticed that a lot more shops recommend x clean 5w30 instead. I tried searching Motul X cess and cannot find much about it.
IIRC, people recommend Motul X-Clean because, supposedly, it is better for cars with a cat converter. Who knows for sure.

I have run Mobil1 0W40, Redline 5W40 and Motul 5W40 X-Cess and never had an issue with any of them.
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
IIRC, people recommend Motul X-Clean because, supposedly, it is better for cars with a cat converter. Who knows for sure.

I have run Mobil1 0W40, Redline 5W40 and Motul 5W40 X-Cess and never had an issue with any of them.
I keep seeing this come up over and over and over, why the heck does a person need to worry about an oil ruining a catalytic converter if the engine ISN'T burning oil, or just tiny amounts??????? I mean....come on here...
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:17 AM   #9
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I completely agree with you.

Description of 8100 X-Clean:
"The Motul 8100 X-CLEAN 5W30 Engine Oil is a 100% Fully Synthetic lubricant formulated to work with Diesel Particulate Filters, and Three Way Catalytic Converters. This oil is also good for any vehicle powered by turbo diesel direct injection engines, or gasoline engines. This oil is also compliant with EURO IV, and EURO V emissions regulations. "

Description of 8100 X-Cess:
"The Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W40 is a 100% fully synthetic motor oil that has been designed for today’s gasoline or diesel powered engines with high power to liter ratios. Like all Motul fluids, this oil will provide anti-wear protection for longer life of the engine, with improved power and responsiveness. "

I really don't see the difference. Maybe it's like Excedrin? They have different versions of the pain killer, but they read all the same. Marketing?
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Old 07-22-2017, 03:23 PM   #10
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Personally ran X-cess 5w40 on my EJ and loved it.

Now being recommended for X-clean 5w30 on my FA
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:49 PM   #11
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I saw a chart (from Motul) that explained it, but I didn't save it. The bottom line is that if you have a cat, X-clean is the one to go with. Without a cat, X-cess is fine. They should perform the same, otherwise.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:28 AM   #12
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i switched from rotella to lubro moly german oil. soo far soo good. it seems to not get as black on the dipstick compared to the rotella. i know that doesnt mean much about howit protects the engine. ive seen good reviews about this oil. https://products.liqui-moly.us/synth...e-5w-40-3.html
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
I saw a chart (from Motul) that explained it, but I didn't save it. The bottom line is that if you have a cat, X-clean is the one to go with. Without a cat, X-cess is fine. They should perform the same, otherwise.
I did some digging on the differences, again, and I could never get the data sheets from Motul to work. I did find this, which posts the data sheets for both the 5W40 X-Cess and 5W40 X-Clean.
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...s-oil-use.html

The X-Clean is rated with SM, and the X-Cess is rated with SN. Usually, the later rating numbers ( SM vs SN ) are rated to higher standards, as I understand it.

The other thing is that X-Clean meets a Euro STD, where X-Cess does not, or at least is not stated in the data sheets.

The X-Clean clearly states for use with catalytic converters, where the X-Cess does not. Either way, both oils are used, and have been used, with modern cars with catalytic converters so both would be fine either way.
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Old 07-23-2017, 05:51 PM   #14
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The datasheets don't really explain it, but the difference is the SAPS content; this info (from Motul) should clarify it:



^ note that only 3-4 of these oils are sold in the USA ^

Quote:
If you aren’t familiar with the terms SAPS or HTHS, SAPS stands for Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur and HTHS stands for High Temperature High Shear.

A low SAPS engine oil is an oil with low sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur content. These engine oils have low ash formation, and are specifically formulated for petrol engines with 3-way catalytic converters as well as diesel engines with Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF). This is because when engine oil burns, the resulting particles accumulate in fine pores or vanes of the particulate filter or catalytic converter, plugging it and dramatically decreasing their lifetime. Phosphorus and sulphur are also particularly harmful to catalytic converters, as they prevent the catalyst from removing the toxic substances from the exhaust gases.

The thing is, additives like phosphorus and sulphur have generally been seen as necessities to providing high wear protection and maintaining engine cleanliness. But because of their effects to catalytic converters and DPFs, the amount of additives were significantly reduced. However, it is still necessary to develop entirely new additives for greater oil change intervals, less friction and adequate wear protection.

New additives are being developed every year to replace SAPS and provide and environmentally-friendly engine oils whilst retaining the great characteristics these additives offer for your engine, and Motul is right at the forefront.

HTHS viscosity is a dimensionless parameter related to the fuel economy and durability of your engine. While HTHS viscosity is related to absolute viscosity, it isn’t the same. HTHS viscosity is a measure of how well an engine oil protects during tough operating conditions, and influences factors such as fuel consumption and engine wear. Lower HTHS viscosity values (2.9-3.5) can improve fuel economy by reducing the amount of power required to pump it, but higher HTHS viscosity values (≥ 3.5) provide better protection for your engine. Therefore a careful balance should be considered when choosing which oil to use.

ASTM D4683 is the test method used to determine the HTHS value, simulating the conditions in an engine where temperatures and friction is the greatest. This is done via a Tapered Bearing Simulator Viscometer at an oil temperature of 150°C, but in practice, the oil must be thick enough for proper lubrication and thin enough to not leech too much power from your engine.
...

Quote:
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40 is a full SAPS, high HTHS engine oil designed for high performance and large displacement engines, whether petrol or diesel, and turbocharged or naturally aspirated, to improve power and responsiveness. Suitable for all types of fuels and compatible with catalytic converters, it is recommended for vehicles requiring an ACEA A3/B4 standard engine oil, which requires high detergent power and a better viscosity increase resistance due to the products of direct injection diesel engines.
...

Quote:
Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 is a mid SAPS, high HTHS high performance engine oil approved by multiple vehicle manufacturers. It is an ACEA C3 standard engine oil for modern vehicles compliant with the latest EURO emission regulation standards, which requires significant oil film resistance and low emission performance. Motul has developed X-clean 5W-40 with a dedicated SAPS level that generates exceptional oil film resistance, reduces friction in the engine and provides compatibility with catalytic converters as well as DPFs, whilst improving wear protection and high temperature resistance for better controlled oil consumption.
In short, use X-cess if you don't have a cat. and X-clean if you do. Honestly, the catalytic converters present in pre-2011 cars (or so) can probably handle X-cess without excessive wear... the X-clean oil was developed for more aggressive modern standards. You can also use the 300V oils but these need to follow a strict oil change interval based on mileage OR time since fill (i.e. change at 6 months, driven or not).

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 07-23-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subarudunk View Post
I tried searching Motul X cess and cannot find much about it.
Try bobistheoilguy.com. Several uoa's there including a 9k run in a Stage IV Bugeye.
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Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM   #16
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Thanks for the info guys! With the price difference being so minimal I think I will be giving xcess a try.
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