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Old 05-14-2003, 04:06 PM   #1
sunnynw
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Unhappy ALL SCCA Club Rally Suspended

As a result of the incident @ Sawmill last weekend that killed two spectators:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=359566

ALL Club Rally events are to be cancelled:

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cg...mID2/1355.html
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:12 PM   #2
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Thanks for posting this Teresa...I just came in here to do that!
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:36 PM   #3
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This is really sad. I'm sure it will only be temporary, but still is not good. What I don't understand is why you would stop Club only. The rules for club and pro are the same, and the actual competitor involved was a seed 3 pro license holder, so why should Club be stop and not Pro? It doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:40 PM   #4
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what a load of crap... utter B... FRIGGIN S....

scca... sorry.. but you suck.

yes i am mad. this is NOT the way to go about resolving your "issues".... you, as usual... are doing it wrong.
the issues at hand can be dealt with....
there is no need to kill our regional series....

mega ticked off!!!!

Jamie
#215 SCCA Pro AND CLUB RALLY DAMMMMIT!
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:51 PM   #5
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Why? Two spectator were killed! Don't you think SCCA should put the rallies for a temporary stop and investigate how their club rallies are organized - like how many workers are available, how spectators are controlled, etc? You can say that accidents are a normal part of rallies, and even drivers/co-drivers will get hurt or die. But I don't think killing spectators can be called "normal".

-Ray
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:56 PM   #6
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racing is racing is racing...

think cart or F1 would stop due to something like this??

no... and why? hmmmmmmmm why indeed.

Why not cancel the SCCA Pro Rally as well...??
I mean SCCA Pro Rally is put on by the SAME ORGANIZERS.... and SAME WORKERS as any club rally... with the same rules, and guidelines...
difference is... manufacturer $$$... now isnt it?

this is not the way to do it.
investigate.. but dont stop us from racing.....

i disagree 150% with their decision.
Jamie
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:57 PM   #7
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Ray, unlike road racing, the location of the spectators was their own choice, and their own choice alone. Both individuals killed had spectated rallies before, and knew the risks.

This infuriates me.

First, ban Club competitors from Pro events.

Then kill the Club events.

At the same time, the TSD/Road events tell Club competitors that their prepared cars are less than welcome.

What the hell are we supposed to do to get seat time? Experience? Seed points?



/Andrew
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:00 PM   #8
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Agreed, Jamie.

The driver who went off was a seed 3 Pro-level competitor.

Club events have fewer spectators, lower speeds, and a higher worker/spectator ratio than any Pro event.

Halting the ClubRally series is stupid and misguided.

/Andrew
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:10 PM   #9
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Does this include club rally like for example the Oregon Trails clubrallys?
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:15 PM   #10
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It includes all ClubRally events that are not affiliated directly with a ProRally event.

So, Oregon Trails can stay, but all of the NER Club events (Black River Stages, Great North Woods, and Maine Forest Winter) are suspended.

/Andrew
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:32 PM   #11
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i disagree 150% with their decision.
My calculater blew up trying to figure that one out!

This has to be a temporary thing since the alternative is ridiculous. The SCCA will meet behind closed doors, come up with a lame list of things to fix "the problem" and we will continue on our merry way. Of course sanctioning fees and entry fees will go up to cover insurance.

Just imagine banning all club level open wheel racing. " You want to race cars, why don't you dip your foot in the water by running a F-1 car at Spa and tells us what you think?"

Not going to happen.

This was a tragic one in a million accident.

Nothing you can do about it.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:44 PM   #12
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I can't even beleive this decision. It is the dumbist thing I've ever heard. I've watched competitors and spectators killed on television and the races actually continue, yet this fluke accident halts all events?

The folks who take part in these events should get together and organize them, and give the Scca the big f-ing bird.

Paul G.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:46 PM   #13
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Boycott the SCCA!!!
They've been screwing over us(rally competitors) and organizers for long enough. I hated them before this decision and I hate them even more now.

-Nate
who elected to not renew his SCCA Club Rally license this year.

Last edited by Thug; 05-14-2003 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:47 PM   #14
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It's probably VERY temporary. They probably have to do it as a political thing... to show that they are willing to pause for a few minutes to think about the problem, to show that they care about safety and that they want to make sure things are done right. But after they've done taken their moment of silence, it's back to rallying.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:49 PM   #15
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Remember the Killer B-class cars in FIA World rally? FIA halted an entire WRC season in the middle of things. Then they immediately dissolved that entire class of cars - which manufacturers had spent millions developing. All that because a driver and a handful of spectators got killed. As long as the SCCA's action is temporary, is it really that out-of-line? Fodder for arguement
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subie Gal

Why not cancel the SCCA Pro Rally as well...??
I mean SCCA Pro Rally is put on by the SAME ORGANIZERS.... and SAME WORKERS as any club rally... with the same rules, and guidelines...
difference is... manufacturer $$$... now isnt it?
IT IS NOT THE SCCA!!!

I have heard the SCCA is covered by two different insurance companies. They have one for Club and one for Pro. It is the one for Club that CANCELLED the SCCA due to this tragedy.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:51 PM   #17
Subie Gal
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right.. yeah... sure....

and who told you that... some SCCA panel member?

this is BS
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:52 PM   #18
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I'm just glad I hadn't sent in the membership form I had all filled out right here next to me. Without Club events to participate in, having the SCCA membership suddenly means nothing to me.

/Andrew
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by cowapult
Remember the Killer B-class cars in FIA World rally? FIA halted an entire WRC season in the middle of things. Then they immediately dissolved that entire class of cars - which manufacturers had spent millions developing. All that because a driver and a handful of spectators got killed. As long as the SCCA's action is temporary, is it really that out-of-line? Fodder for arguement
No they didn't. The FIA did no such thing. The Group B cars were at the last event of the year in 1986... Olympus Rally. What the FIA did do was say that Group B was outdated at the end of the year and that Group A would be the top class in 1987. And I have tapes of every event in 1986 to prove it.
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:33 PM   #20
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Yeah, I definitely don't have all those tapes
So what I am thinking of? The Group A's?
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:44 PM   #21
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You guys are amazing. Two spectators were killed, and you tend to think that's just normal risk involved. Okay, well, I haven't attended a rally, but if I do go, I want to know where I stand is dangerous or not! Sorry, but unlike some of you, I don't expect to die by just going to watch a rally.

If you want rallies to be successful overall in the US, and to attract a WRC event here, I think some of you have to rethink your priorities. I know many of you have serious money and personal interest invested, but go re-read this thread. All I see are cry babies.

-Ray
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by cowapult
Remember the Killer B-class cars in FIA World rally? FIA halted an entire WRC season in the middle of things. Then they immediately dissolved that entire class of cars - which manufacturers had spent millions developing. All that because a driver and a handful of spectators got killed. As long as the SCCA's action is temporary, is it really that out-of-line? Fodder for arguement
Just more than a little different!!!

The B-class cars were just flat out dangerous (like the F1 cars of the same time - remember the skirts issue) where the engine power just climbed well beyond the abilities of the aerodynamics and safey.

They crashed in practice and in a BUNCH of rallies and kill drivers.

In this case with RIM being a debarkal and then cancelling the mainstay events of the sport, is too much of a reaction.

In my opinion, however humble that is, ProRally is NO safer than ClubRally (possibly less so given the pressures to win and the higher speeds)

Make no sense to penalise just the membership and stinks like double standards to let the "sponsors" continue
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by rkkwan
You guys are amazing. Two spectators were killed, and you tend to think that's just normal risk involved. Okay, well, I haven't attended a rally, but if I do go, I want to know where I stand is dangerous or not! Sorry, but unlike some of you, I don't expect to die by just going to watch a rally.
If you want rallies to be successful overall in the US, and to attract a WRC event here, I think some of you have to rethink your priorities. I know many of you have serious money and personal interest invested, but go re-read this thread. All I see are cry babies.

-Ray
Ray....
you're a silly little monkey who obviously knows nothing about the sport... go troll somewhere else...


In studying a bit on SCCA's site... there is the possibility that Club Rally has it's own insurance policy. I'm not sure that Pro is a separate policy on it's own - because I dont see it listed anywhere in the insurance/liability sections.

Perhaps this is out of SCCA's hands afterall

Meaning we sit and wait... or rally in Canada or Mexico....
or pay the ridiculous expenses involved in Pro Rally.. yay.

major suckage.
Jamie
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Old 05-14-2003, 07:04 PM   #24
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First off, lets kill the name calling right now. Let's not look like a bunch of idiots when talking about this subject.

Ray, I do not think the loss of two specators is something that should be taken lightly. But lets think a bit more about motorsports (all of it) and the risks involved.

I've witnessed folks killed on TV (Dale Earnhart, etc..). Think about how those situations were handled (that one is the most recent in my mind). I also think the specators and competitors share the same risks (if not spectators more), so I don't differentiate death at an event by asking "was it a competitor or driver". It doesn't matter.

I do think the SCCA needs to come up with better rules/safety for all spectators and competitors. There is always room for improvement. Sad situations like this bring about these changes, that are required.

I just disagree with how it is handled by the SCCA. Why cancel events? Nascar didn't do anything like that when Ernhart passed. It's just not a required step, and in my book looks horrible for the sport (almost like taking blame).

Paul G.
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Old 05-14-2003, 07:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subie Gal

Ray....
you're a silly little monkey who obviously knows nothing about the sport... go troll somewhere else...
Ray is not a troll. So dont call him one. Use your rolled eyes elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally posted by Subie Gal

In studying a bit on SCCA's site... there is the possibility that Club Rally has it's own insurance policy. I'm not sure that Pro is a separate policy on it's own - because I dont see it listed anywhere in the insurance/liability sections.

Perhaps this is out of SCCA's hands afterall

Meaning we sit and wait... or rally in Canada or Mexico....
or pay the ridiculous expenses involved in Pro Rally.. yay.

major suckage.
Jamie

That might work, but you cant even get into a Pro Rally event if you're a 6,7 or 8 seeded Club Rally competitor.
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