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Old 01-05-2005, 09:51 AM   #1
omahasubaru
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Default RE070 -vs- Azenis RT-215 for Solo II ST use

I did search, but none of the posts were looking at tires for Solo II Street Touring compeition use only, most were summer/street and then everyone decided to tell them how much the Azenis suck on a road course.
Link to the search I did.

I'm wanting opinions from people who have actually used both on an Street Touring Solo II subaru. STS, STX, or STU. Target class is STS.
I could care less about opinions of these tires for anything other than actual Solo II use, so please don't tell me how you feel about them on the street.

I ask as I've got a chance at both sets used with a good amount of life left and the prices are similar, but I really don't want to mess with the RE070's if they aren't as good as the Azenis, but if they're very close, I may get them to try out for some events.

Thanks for your time,

Jon
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Old 01-05-2005, 01:05 PM   #2
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I like the 070. I've run on numerous sets of azenis, and now two sets of 070 for autocross and small track events. Grip is nearly the same, they both react to temperatures similar etc., meaning they both get greasy when they get hot.

I have found the 070 likes higher pressures than the Azenis, so take that into consideration if you do test them. I've run anywhere from 44-46psi f, 40-44r on my 04 STi. They also like negatvie camber, and without it can become quite rounded on the shoulder.

Chris H.
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Old 01-05-2005, 02:52 PM   #3
omahasubaru
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Thanks for the input. Don't worry as they'll see lots of camber.

Anyone else? Surely there are others who've tired them since STi guys tend to sell them off rather cheap.
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Old 01-05-2005, 08:35 PM   #4
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I race an '04 STi in ESP so for competition I use R compounds, but I do a lot of test and tunes and the like. After autocrossing, I don't care much about street use since I'm not about to drive like that on public roads -- my main purpose for the tires is autocrossing. Anyway, I used the stock RE070s in 2003 for autocross, track, and a hillclimb. For 2004 I bought a set of Azenis. After I wore those out I bought a set of used RE070s.

I do not have hard data like comparative lap times or even data logging. However, I prefer the RE070s to the Azenis in wear and feel. I run a lot lower pressures than Chris -- about 39F / 36R hot on asphalt and pretty much the same as the Azenis. The pyrometer said this gave even temperatures with -2.8 camber, but (1) the merits of a pyrometer for autocross are debatable, and (2) Chris probably knows more than I do.

The new Azenis RT-615 might be worth thinking about, though sizing and availability may be lacking. Nobody knows yet how they'll actually perform, though they're supposed to be stickier than the current Azenis.
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Old 01-06-2005, 03:17 PM   #5
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The Azenis is a bit faster for autox. Maybe 0.2 to 0.3 on a 60 second course. If you drive them back to back you will notice it.

-Tom
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Old 01-06-2005, 03:45 PM   #6
omahasubaru
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Tom,

Glad to see you providing some input into the thread. Could you please elaborate on where/how it is you think they give up that time to the Azenis. I'm trying to prevent the need to buy & try both.

If it is just true actual grip, then your response is fine, however if you think it is a specific element (slaloms, sweepers, chicanes, etc.) then please elaborate.

Also please note what surfaces you were on. Asphalt or Concrete.

Thanks - Jon
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Old 01-06-2005, 03:56 PM   #7
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I personally drove them both on Asphalt. I felt that the RE070 didn't have as much total grip and was slower on them. Talk to Orion, who drove them both on concrete and thought the RE070 were more then a "bit" slower.

-Tom
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:13 PM   #8
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OK, first of all take into consideration that Toledo's concrete drives alot like asphalt!

The Azenis did feel a little slippery, but the temps at the '03 Nat Tour in Toledo were perfect (Perfect for KC to destroy 2nd place (me) by 2.365!). Grip was good, but not great but I never felt uncomfortable with the Azenis.
This year I tried both the Ecsta MX and RE070 up there. Both events, NT and CenDiv, weren't exactly ideal conditions for either tire. Days started cold and never really got up to the temps we'd want. The 070's NEED heat intially unlike the Azenis. They are completely useless even with a codriver when cold. On the first day of the NT this year we got them up to decent temps by our last run and grip was noticably better, but still not what one would term 'grippy'. 2nd day was considerably warmer, and we ended up overheating them on 2nd runs and had serious issues keeping the tail behind us. It was jeckyl 'n hyde that we weren't expecting. The ambient temp wasn't that much greater overall by the end of the day, but the cold morning was better than a warm one. The concrete there is just to strange to really get a true feeling of them at a place like Peru or Topeka. I didn't get a chance to run either this year. Still on concrete I'd take Azenis anyday.

Moving to asphalt my opinion shifts from Azenis to RE070 when it's 70 or above. The 070's can handle the heat MUCH better on asphalt and really got better with every run even with a codriver. The compound is betterl suited to hot asphalt over hot concrete.Spraying is still required, but not to the extent of what's needed for Azenis on asphalt.
If it's cold though, you're as bad off as you are on concrete with them. Here in Columbus we never really had scathing hot days like last summer but most were well into the 70's. Of the 3 (070's, Azenis, MX) I'd take the 070's locally here. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish I would have ditched the MX's sooner locally. I tried to stick with them too long and we lost the Regional champ to Todd Meade.

Other 070 notes:
I found that on asphalt running similar pressures to my Azenis (under 40) was great, but 3 deg of camber helps as Chris said. The heat range for asphalt was as I said much better than the Azenis but water spraying will still be necessary with a codriver. Single driving I found it was slowing down the car when cooled with h2o.

Don't waste any time with the MX. Even in 245/40-17 it was a good .5 off Todd all year here on it's best days. He had a tough time nationally, but was running VERY strong locally against us. The 070's beat him a couple times and I was very close at another with them.
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:20 PM   #9
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I'll see if I can't get my codriver to give his opinions too.
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:55 PM   #10
omahasubaru
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Orion. How similar did you keep your suspension set-up between the 070 & Azenis? Just curious if you had to make changes to get the most out of one tire over the other, or if they were both very similar.

Since all of our local events are on asphalt, perhaps I should give them a try locally and just save the Azenis for concrete events.

If I'm lucky, maybe I can get a chance to do a good test when I'm in Salina on concrete for an event. Perhaps can run them back to back and compare. Too bad they frown on testing at Evolution schools.
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:02 PM   #11
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Personally, I think the Toledeo concrete is weird... Not only does it not make grip like Peru, it doesn't make grip like unsealed asphalt either. I'm sure it will improve as it ages, but I have trouble making any tire recommendation based on Toledo.

Having had the MX and the 070 on 3 types of asphalt though, I'd take the 070 anyday as long as you can get some heat in them. Unlike the Azenis, they need some heat to work, but too much heat will make them greasy. It's just that point is a LOT higher than it is on an Azenis.

We have a local event here that features a elimination-style runoff at the end of it... If you make it into the final 8 and higher, the runs come so frequently, that the Azenis folks can't cool their tires down enough. Todd Meade was with a tenth of me during the normal event, but he was down just over a second by the time the final 4 round was run... He had been spraying his Azenis all day, while we didn't start spraying the 070 until the final 8 in the runoff.

We figured out that keeping the 070 within a certain temp range, and only spraying them enough to keep them there worked the best.

Mike (Orion's co-driver last season)
OVR Solo Tech Chief
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:50 PM   #12
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My recommendation: The Azenis are slightly faster for autocross use. Buy a set and mount them on some Rotas or something. Keep the RE070s for wet events and driving to and from (assuming you are doing this in STS). By wet I mean standing water, as the Azenis will be faster in all but the heaviest stuff (until they get near-bald).

FWIW, I drove the RE070s to my first event in the new car, and came through an absolute frog-choker on the way to Birmingham. The hydro resistance of the RE070s was much, much better than I expected, and certainly better than the Azenis at interstate speeds.

Joel
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:36 PM   #13
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Joel,

Have you actually autocrossed on the RE070's?

I could care less about which tire for street use. That's not even a concern as what ever we're competing on won't see any street use.
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Old 01-08-2005, 01:57 AM   #14
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great thread
(Joel) does the extra tire width of the 245/45 Azenis create a noticeable improvement in traction over the 225/45 re070's?
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:41 AM   #15
omahasubaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougM
great thread
(Joel) does the extra tire width of the 245/45 Azenis create a noticeable improvement in traction over the 225/45 re070's?
This is speculation, but I'd think any gain in width out be counter acted by the larger diameter making the already bad WRX gearing worse.
Or did you mean 245/40-17 which in that case means you not talking about the Azenis.

Hopefully Joel will respond.
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Old 01-10-2005, 09:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omahasubaru
Joel,

Have you actually autocrossed on the RE070's?

I could care less about which tire for street use. That's not even a concern as what ever we're competing on won't see any street use.
I ran the RE070s once before the ESP build started. It was all race rubber after that. I'm comparing the RE070s on the STi to the Azenis I ran in STX on my previous car. The Azenis are better in the dry and damp. I think the RE070s are better when it gets really wet (Hence my suggestion to use them for the road and wet races, with Azenis in dry/damp conditions).
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Old 01-10-2005, 09:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omahasubaru
This is speculation, but I'd think any gain in width out be counter acted by the larger diameter making the already bad WRX gearing worse.
Or did you mean 245/40-17 which in that case means you not talking about the Azenis.

Hopefully Joel will respond.
IMO the 245 Azenis RT-215 is too tall for the WRX. It would work for the STi in STU, but not an STS or STX car. Not only is it tall, but it's very heavy. Azenis 225/45/17, Kuhmo MX 245/40/17, BF Goodrich KD 245/40/17, and Falken FK451 245/35/17 seem to be the most effective STX tires.
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