JDM Sti 5 speed VS JDM Sti 6 speed

Ace009 · 02-02-2005, 04:55 PM

I'm planning on upgrading my tranny in the near future and I've read a lot of raves from people who switched to JDM Sti transmissions. I tried searching for comparisons but came up empty. My question is; which one would be better w/ regards to improved performance over the stock but taking into consideration, the total cost (w/ installation, wiring, etc.).
Thanks in advance for any help on this.

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GTScoob · 02-02-2005, 05:01 PM

Call Jon at gr8wheels if you need any hard info. He imports older STIs and parts them out on here. I just picked up a version5 STI 5speed from him.

I would think that an older STI 5speed would be enough for most people on here. Jon told me that the transmission should hold up to around 400whp and still hold up.

The gears are wider and thus stronger than a WRX. I dont know why no vendors carry the longer standard STI gears but only the RA ones but they are both high strength.

With a JDM 5speed already assembled you'll probably need a new rear differential since most of them are 4.44 or 4.11. You can keep your stock driveshaft which would need to be swapped to an automatic one if you went 6speed.

You can get DCCD STI 5speeds which will require a controller or a non-DCCD one which would bolt right up.

ebeck · 02-02-2005, 07:30 PM

Considering cost I would go with a JDM 5mt. You are asking for better w/ regards to improved performance. I take that to mean yu would like your diffs to actually do something meaningfull. From a cost perspective it can not be beat considering the whole solution.

By whole solution I mean this. The 6mt is indeed better in many ways, but the JDM 5mt can be had for $1500 and has great diffs. The lack of diffs is my biggest complaint about upgrading to RA gears. I like them alot but as a whole solution it leaves something to be desired. Namley the lack of proper diffs. The JDM 5mt corrects that with LSD in front and DCCD in many cases. Some RA variants had mechanical diffs. Sounds like a socket wrench when driving. Nice! Correct me if I am wrong but the synchros were better in those 5mt's as well. Hmmm, to lazy to search but I believe that is right. Also I believe at tha tpoint the gearsets were factory hardened. I believe they were actually shotpeened. That is the good stuff.

The sets that can be purchased on the open market are NOT hardened. Hence the cryo tyrtment many vendors use in an attempt to strengthen them.

Yes RA gears can be broken but so can straight cut dog boxes. The factory 5mt is stronger than a 5mt you DIY and has expensive diffs. All for $1500. What is not to like?

Good lcuk man.

austenf740 · 02-02-2005, 10:13 PM

What JDM 5 speeds come with a 4.444 fd? I have only seen 4.111 but a 4.444 would be perfect for what im looking for instead of building one.

GTScoob · 02-02-2005, 10:19 PM

http://www.northursalia.com/t...y/history.html

austenf740 · 02-02-2005, 10:37 PM

Oh so a lot of them

. So short of a new 6 speed JDM transmission with a 4.444 this would be the best choice in terms of acceleration from a stop?

GTScoob · 02-03-2005, 03:07 AM

I doubt it. Running the 4.44 gears will effectively shorten each gear and the 6speed already requires 2 shifts to get to 60mph.

Ace009 · 02-03-2005, 08:58 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I haven't really looked around but $1500 is actually lower than what I thought the JDM 5's go for. I better start shopping around...

austenf740 · 02-03-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTScoob

I doubt it. Running the 4.44 gears will effectively shorten each gear and the 6speed already requires 2 shifts to get to 60mph.

So you are saying it will be slower since you have to shift more often or slower because of the gears?

Ver.III · 02-03-2005, 11:03 AM

Spend the extra and get the 6-speed (JDM) . Hands down is the better in the long run.

GTScoob · 02-03-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austenf740

So you are saying it will be slower since you have to shift more often or slower because of the gears?

You'll run through each gear quicker since the final drive is lower, so you'll have to shift more frequently.

jesse370 · 02-03-2005, 12:25 PM

True but pulling it into 6th just feels so good

sjl1614 · 02-03-2005, 12:49 PM

I just installed a version 4 STi RA trans in my car. Also bought it from gr8wheels. It has the 4.44 gears, now i think i should have got a tranny with 4.11 gears, 5ht gear at 60 is turning 3000 rpm. It has the dccd center diff. It came with roller know and dccd ecu. i just ordered the harnes from rallispec for $170($700+ without ecu). The trans works great!!! The only problem is not having the dccd wired up, with 65% of the power at the rear wheels, the rear end will slide out at 60mph in 4th gear... The price was also very good since it came with a R180 rear diff, hubs and axles. The only thing is, the hubs don't have ABS, now i have to figure something out. Hope this helps!!

austenf740 · 02-03-2005, 01:41 PM

sjl1614 - So do you feel like you have to shift way too often with that transmission, I'm assuming that it is hooked up to a USDM WRX engine as well?

Anyone out there with a JDM ver.7+ engine hooked up to a 5mt with 4.444?

ebeck · 02-03-2005, 04:53 PM

Personally, there is no such thing as too much shifting. I wish I had 7 gears and a 4.44. When the car is set up right it is so engaging and visceral. Rowing gears! I love it man. The RA has the benifit of not having an overdrive you you have 5 close ratio gears to play with. Other wise you have 4 gears and an overdrive. Dirt bikes would be boring with just 2 gears. Same thing with cars. Give me 7 close ratio, non-overdriven gear box with 4.44 FD anytime.

More shifts != slow. Common misconception for some reason. Especially in a turbo car where keeping hih in the boost/rpm range is critical.

I shift at 8K and I drop down to 6700rpm or so. FAT in the 20# boost range. When you let up on the clutch and hit the gas quickly, the boost puts you back in your seat. Passanger heads bobble like.... well a bobble. Every gear there is a surge on the upshift. So different than the USDM experience where you pray for boost crossing an intersection.

New gears in some form would be my absolute first mod. RA, STi, PPG hybrid, 6MT. No wuestion. It is that significant in terms of performance gains. At least to me in my experience.

Scoobie Steve · 02-03-2005, 05:51 PM

sjl1614 dont use ABS with a dccd trans! Ebeck the RA has a 5th gear ratio of .825 so its an overdrive. The 4.44 final ratios were designed for a JDM engine that makes power up till 8k rpms. Not a low reving USDM engine. 3k at 60mph sounds a little low to me. If you had a JDM engine you would have another 5000 rpms of power.

elhalisf · 02-03-2005, 05:59 PM

That really gets me thinking then. Because I just purchased the RA Gear set to swap into my 04 WRX. Now I am considering getting a JDM 5 speed already built. So you are saying that getting the 4.11 final drive as apposed to the stock 3.9 makes the setup much better? So I would be looking at getting the V3 STI Ra gearbox, since it has the same STI Ra ratios with the 4.11, or do I have other options as well.

jesse370 · 02-03-2005, 06:00 PM

You can use the dccd with abs, it just acts really wierd when you need to make a hard stop with any the dccd engaged. But on the new dccd-a cars when you make a hard stop the dccd just shifts to open.

Scoobie Steve · 02-03-2005, 06:04 PM

Thats why if you value your DCCD center diff you wont use it with abs. NO cars pre ver7 with DCCD have ABS!! There is a good reason for this.

sjl1614 · 02-03-2005, 06:40 PM

I see your point steve, i can see the pulsating of the brakes causing a mess with the dccd diff. Locking and unlocking. Since i am still waiting on my dccd harness, does it tie into the brake switch and "unlock" the dccd during braking??

austenf- yes many more shifts now. the good thing is you can pull out of 35 mph in 5th gear now...

Scoobie Steve · 02-03-2005, 10:11 PM

I you are using the Ver 4 controller you can not use ABS. Period! If you wanted to get crazy and use the USDM STi dccd you would be able to use ABS. The wrx ABS sucks anyway, just ditch it. The Ebrake ties into the unit and unlocks it when its pulled.

sjl1614 · 02-03-2005, 10:24 PM

Two days after i put in the trans.....i was thinking it would be nice the have my ABS working as i was skidding sideways towards a firetruck that appeared in the intersection in front of me........i finally stopped to a cloud of white smoke and two long black strips behind me....but hey....who's needs ABS...lol

jesse370 · 02-04-2005, 12:20 AM

FYI. the rallispec controller is I believe a ver1 controller. That was the only year that the dccd harness was separated from the main harness. And again yes you can use a dccd tranny with abs....It might not be the best thing to do as everyday etc...but you can use it. And besides at least for me the only time the dccd isn't in open is in the snow or when its reallty really wet out. And depending on the amount of traction or lack of it, I dial in some lock. I would guess that over the course of a year my dccd may be out of the open position 5% of the time. And that is being generous with that guess. But for the most part my car is in open and when the diff is in open using the abs is just like in a dccd-a car. And I would be willing to be the only time you may do some harm to the center is when its in full LOCK. But really when you think about it all abs is doing is in a way the same thing that happens to your car in the snow or rain.

One wheel may be spinning at a different rate then the others. I think that whole no ABS and dccd was more of a way to not deal with warranty or failure issues. But I think that ultimately all it would do is generate added heat in the unit. Dave @ rallispec did my install and I value his opinion on subaru trannies over just about anyone and he didn't see any issues with the way my car will be used and ABS.

scoobyimpreza · 02-04-2005, 06:34 AM

after much thought.. ive decided to get a v5/6 sti (maybe ra) tranny w/4.444, just hope it will last with my hybrid ej257 set up and what ive got to throw at it.

not sure why ive decided it, mostly cost probably.. reason why i sold my internals and i am just gonna run the ej257 SB stock.. be nice to have it all.. but in no way do i need to.

elhalisf · 02-04-2005, 11:35 AM

That really gets me thinking then. Because I just purchased the RA Gear set to swap into my 04 WRX. Now I am considering getting a JDM 5 speed already built. So you are saying that getting the 4.11 final drive as apposed to the stock 3.9 makes the setup much better? So I would be looking at getting the V3 STI Ra gearbox, since it has the same STI Ra ratios with the 4.11, or do I have other options as well.

02-02-2005, 04:55 PM	#1
Ace009 Scooby Specialist Member#: 70353 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago Vehicle: 2004 WRX PSM	JDM Sti 5 speed VS JDM Sti 6 speed I'm planning on upgrading my tranny in the near future and I've read a lot of raves from people who switched to JDM Sti transmissions. I tried searching for comparisons but came up empty. My question is; which one would be better w/ regards to improved performance over the stock but taking into consideration, the total cost (w/ installation, wiring, etc.). Thanks in advance for any help on this. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

02-03-2005, 05:51 PM	#16
Scoobie Steve Scooby Specialist Member#: 2289 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Bangor, PA Vehicle: 1998 11.87@112mph Subaru L Ver 6 STi Type R	sjl1614 dont use ABS with a dccd trans! Ebeck the RA has a 5th gear ratio of .825 so its an overdrive. The 4.44 final ratios were designed for a JDM engine that makes power up till 8k rpms. Not a low reving USDM engine. 3k at 60mph sounds a little low to me. If you had a JDM engine you would have another 5000 rpms of power. Last edited by Scoobie Steve; 02-03-2005 at 06:01 PM.

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02-02-2005, 05:01 PM	#2
GTScoob Scooby Specialist Member#: 68602 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta Vehicle: 02 STi Wagon	Call Jon at gr8wheels if you need any hard info. He imports older STIs and parts them out on here. I just picked up a version5 STI 5speed from him. I would think that an older STI 5speed would be enough for most people on here. Jon told me that the transmission should hold up to around 400whp and still hold up. The gears are wider and thus stronger than a WRX. I dont know why no vendors carry the longer standard STI gears but only the RA ones but they are both high strength. With a JDM 5speed already assembled you'll probably need a new rear differential since most of them are 4.44 or 4.11. You can keep your stock driveshaft which would need to be swapped to an automatic one if you went 6speed. You can get DCCD STI 5speeds which will require a controller or a non-DCCD one which would bolt right up.

02-02-2005, 07:30 PM	#3
ebeck Scooby Specialist Member#: 35585 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Scottsdale AZ. Vehicle: RIP I'll always be The Ver8 Magistrate	Considering cost I would go with a JDM 5mt. You are asking for better w/ regards to improved performance. I take that to mean yu would like your diffs to actually do something meaningfull. From a cost perspective it can not be beat considering the whole solution. By whole solution I mean this. The 6mt is indeed better in many ways, but the JDM 5mt can be had for $1500 and has great diffs. The lack of diffs is my biggest complaint about upgrading to RA gears. I like them alot but as a whole solution it leaves something to be desired. Namley the lack of proper diffs. The JDM 5mt corrects that with LSD in front and DCCD in many cases. Some RA variants had mechanical diffs. Sounds like a socket wrench when driving. Nice! Correct me if I am wrong but the synchros were better in those 5mt's as well. Hmmm, to lazy to search but I believe that is right. Also I believe at tha tpoint the gearsets were factory hardened. I believe they were actually shotpeened. That is the good stuff. The sets that can be purchased on the open market are NOT hardened. Hence the cryo tyrtment many vendors use in an attempt to strengthen them. Yes RA gears can be broken but so can straight cut dog boxes. The factory 5mt is stronger than a 5mt you DIY and has expensive diffs. All for $1500. What is not to like? Good lcuk man.

02-02-2005, 10:13 PM	#4
austenf740 Scooby Specialist Member#: 21519 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin,TX Vehicle: 02 WRB WRX 98 RS	What JDM 5 speeds come with a 4.444 fd? I have only seen 4.111 but a 4.444 would be perfect for what im looking for instead of building one.

02-02-2005, 10:19 PM	#5
GTScoob Scooby Specialist Member#: 68602 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta Vehicle: 02 STi Wagon	http://www.northursalia.com/t...y/history.html

02-02-2005, 10:37 PM	#6
austenf740 Scooby Specialist Member#: 21519 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin,TX Vehicle: 02 WRB WRX 98 RS	Oh so a lot of them . So short of a new 6 speed JDM transmission with a 4.444 this would be the best choice in terms of acceleration from a stop?

02-03-2005, 03:07 AM	#7
GTScoob Scooby Specialist Member#: 68602 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta Vehicle: 02 STi Wagon	I doubt it. Running the 4.44 gears will effectively shorten each gear and the 6speed already requires 2 shifts to get to 60mph.

02-03-2005, 08:58 AM	#8
Ace009 Scooby Specialist Member#: 70353 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago Vehicle: 2004 WRX PSM	Thanks for all the replies. I haven't really looked around but $1500 is actually lower than what I thought the JDM 5's go for. I better start shopping around...

02-03-2005, 11:03 AM	#10
Ver.III Scooby Specialist Member#: 1185 Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: North of the border Vehicle: I flap my gums and now I'm a specialist	Spend the extra and get the 6-speed (JDM) . Hands down is the better in the long run.

02-03-2005, 12:25 PM	#12
jesse370 Scooby Specialist Member#: 12147 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: collingswood nj Vehicle: 2005 g-35 ivory pearl	True but pulling it into 6th just feels so good

02-03-2005, 12:49 PM	#13
sjl1614 Scooby Specialist Member#: 56791 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Charlotte, NC Vehicle: 06 OBS	I just installed a version 4 STi RA trans in my car. Also bought it from gr8wheels. It has the 4.44 gears, now i think i should have got a tranny with 4.11 gears, 5ht gear at 60 is turning 3000 rpm. It has the dccd center diff. It came with roller know and dccd ecu. i just ordered the harnes from rallispec for $170($700+ without ecu). The trans works great!!! The only problem is not having the dccd wired up, with 65% of the power at the rear wheels, the rear end will slide out at 60mph in 4th gear... The price was also very good since it came with a R180 rear diff, hubs and axles. The only thing is, the hubs don't have ABS, now i have to figure something out. Hope this helps!!

02-03-2005, 01:41 PM	#14
austenf740 Scooby Specialist Member#: 21519 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin,TX Vehicle: 02 WRB WRX 98 RS	sjl1614 - So do you feel like you have to shift way too often with that transmission, I'm assuming that it is hooked up to a USDM WRX engine as well? Anyone out there with a JDM ver.7+ engine hooked up to a 5mt with 4.444?

02-03-2005, 04:53 PM	#15
ebeck Scooby Specialist Member#: 35585 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Scottsdale AZ. Vehicle: RIP I'll always be The Ver8 Magistrate	Personally, there is no such thing as too much shifting. I wish I had 7 gears and a 4.44. When the car is set up right it is so engaging and visceral. Rowing gears! I love it man. The RA has the benifit of not having an overdrive you you have 5 close ratio gears to play with. Other wise you have 4 gears and an overdrive. Dirt bikes would be boring with just 2 gears. Same thing with cars. Give me 7 close ratio, non-overdriven gear box with 4.44 FD anytime. More shifts != slow. Common misconception for some reason. Especially in a turbo car where keeping hih in the boost/rpm range is critical. I shift at 8K and I drop down to 6700rpm or so. FAT in the 20# boost range. When you let up on the clutch and hit the gas quickly, the boost puts you back in your seat. Passanger heads bobble like.... well a bobble. Every gear there is a surge on the upshift. So different than the USDM experience where you pray for boost crossing an intersection. New gears in some form would be my absolute first mod. RA, STi, PPG hybrid, 6MT. No wuestion. It is that significant in terms of performance gains. At least to me in my experience.

02-03-2005, 05:59 PM	#17
elhalisf Scooby Specialist Member#: 56332 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Clinton Twp, MI Vehicle: 2005 STI Cobb Stg 2	That really gets me thinking then. Because I just purchased the RA Gear set to swap into my 04 WRX. Now I am considering getting a JDM 5 speed already built. So you are saying that getting the 4.11 final drive as apposed to the stock 3.9 makes the setup much better? So I would be looking at getting the V3 STI Ra gearbox, since it has the same STI Ra ratios with the 4.11, or do I have other options as well.

02-03-2005, 06:00 PM	#18
jesse370 Scooby Specialist Member#: 12147 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: collingswood nj Vehicle: 2005 g-35 ivory pearl	You can use the dccd with abs, it just acts really wierd when you need to make a hard stop with any the dccd engaged. But on the new dccd-a cars when you make a hard stop the dccd just shifts to open.

02-03-2005, 06:04 PM	#19
Scoobie Steve Scooby Specialist Member#: 2289 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Bangor, PA Vehicle: 1998 11.87@112mph Subaru L Ver 6 STi Type R	Thats why if you value your DCCD center diff you wont use it with abs. NO cars pre ver7 with DCCD have ABS!! There is a good reason for this.

02-03-2005, 06:40 PM	#20
sjl1614 Scooby Specialist Member#: 56791 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Charlotte, NC Vehicle: 06 OBS	I see your point steve, i can see the pulsating of the brakes causing a mess with the dccd diff. Locking and unlocking. Since i am still waiting on my dccd harness, does it tie into the brake switch and "unlock" the dccd during braking?? austenf- yes many more shifts now. the good thing is you can pull out of 35 mph in 5th gear now...

02-03-2005, 10:11 PM	#21
Scoobie Steve Scooby Specialist Member#: 2289 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Bangor, PA Vehicle: 1998 11.87@112mph Subaru L Ver 6 STi Type R	I you are using the Ver 4 controller you can not use ABS. Period! If you wanted to get crazy and use the USDM STi dccd you would be able to use ABS. The wrx ABS sucks anyway, just ditch it. The Ebrake ties into the unit and unlocks it when its pulled.

02-03-2005, 10:24 PM	#22
sjl1614 Scooby Specialist Member#: 56791 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Charlotte, NC Vehicle: 06 OBS	Two days after i put in the trans.....i was thinking it would be nice the have my ABS working as i was skidding sideways towards a firetruck that appeared in the intersection in front of me........i finally stopped to a cloud of white smoke and two long black strips behind me....but hey....who's needs ABS...lol

02-04-2005, 12:20 AM	#23
jesse370 Scooby Specialist Member#: 12147 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: collingswood nj Vehicle: 2005 g-35 ivory pearl	FYI. the rallispec controller is I believe a ver1 controller. That was the only year that the dccd harness was separated from the main harness. And again yes you can use a dccd tranny with abs....It might not be the best thing to do as everyday etc...but you can use it. And besides at least for me the only time the dccd isn't in open is in the snow or when its reallty really wet out. And depending on the amount of traction or lack of it, I dial in some lock. I would guess that over the course of a year my dccd may be out of the open position 5% of the time. And that is being generous with that guess. But for the most part my car is in open and when the diff is in open using the abs is just like in a dccd-a car. And I would be willing to be the only time you may do some harm to the center is when its in full LOCK. But really when you think about it all abs is doing is in a way the same thing that happens to your car in the snow or rain. One wheel may be spinning at a different rate then the others. I think that whole no ABS and dccd was more of a way to not deal with warranty or failure issues. But I think that ultimately all it would do is generate added heat in the unit. Dave @ rallispec did my install and I value his opinion on subaru trannies over just about anyone and he didn't see any issues with the way my car will be used and ABS.

02-04-2005, 06:34 AM	#24
scoobyimpreza Scooby Specialist Member#: 11454 Join Date: Oct 2001 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 1998 impreza L brillant red	after much thought.. ive decided to get a v5/6 sti (maybe ra) tranny w/4.444, just hope it will last with my hybrid ej257 set up and what ive got to throw at it. not sure why ive decided it, mostly cost probably.. reason why i sold my internals and i am just gonna run the ej257 SB stock.. be nice to have it all.. but in no way do i need to.

02-04-2005, 11:35 AM	#25
elhalisf Scooby Specialist Member#: 56332 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Clinton Twp, MI Vehicle: 2005 STI Cobb Stg 2	That really gets me thinking then. Because I just purchased the RA Gear set to swap into my 04 WRX. Now I am considering getting a JDM 5 speed already built. So you are saying that getting the 4.11 final drive as apposed to the stock 3.9 makes the setup much better? So I would be looking at getting the V3 STI Ra gearbox, since it has the same STI Ra ratios with the 4.11, or do I have other options as well.