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Old 02-07-2005, 11:37 PM   #1
PDXTuning
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Default PDXTuning Results - 51lb GT32 - Yummy

PDXTuning recently posted results for a GPMoto GT32 kit tuned on a US 2.5L STI. As part of that posting, we said that we would be testing a larger 51 lb compressor wheel. The compressor wheel on the turbo we originally tested was a 42lb/min wheel. We had the opportunity to put a 51lb wheel on the same car, which is the ideal test case.

As part of our original tune, we did a pump gas and race gas map. During the original race gas tune, we did a high peak boost and a lower peak boost tune. Unfortunately during the retune we were running a less then 100% race fuel mix, so we opted to only do the lower boost race tune. The difference is only in the peak midrange torque. Based on our experience, I suspect with the same higher peak boost, the 51lb wheel would achieve nearly the same peak torque.

This did not effect the pump gas comparisons.

As before, this was a US STI, GPMoto TMIC, RC740 injectors, PDXTuning EcuTek Map.

Summary Results:

51lb Compressor Results - Pump Fuel
358 hp @ 6500 rpm
330 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm

51lb Compressor Results - Race Fuel
384 hp @ 6500 rpm
347 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm

Chart 1 - 42lb vs 51lb Pump Gas Tune

Comment:

The larger compressor wheel resulted in a small delay in spoolup, amounting to an approximate delay in torque of about 100 rpm at spoolup, and about 300rpm near the peak. While this additional lag is visible on the chart, in practical experience this new wheel does not feel significantly more laggy. (in fact, it is not. It is still faster spooling then a Green). Up top, the 51lb wheel is nothing short of perfect. This wheel allows the turbo to maintain boost and torque much better then the 41lb wheel. Without question, I would choose this option.

Chart 2 - 42lb vs 51lb Race Gas Tune(low peak boost)

Comment:

As with the pump gas tune, the larger compressor wheel netted an increase in lag, but not that significant. The upper end gains were similar to the pump gas, but obviously smaller percentage wise given the heavly pushed starting point. None the less, the upper end torque is improved all the way to redline for a small cost in spoolup.

Chart 3 - 42lb vs 51lb Race Gas Tune(high peak boost on one tune)

Comment:

This is just for completeness. The 42lb tune was done with more peak boost, but it shows how the boost in the midrange can add a lot of torque.

Chart 4 - 42lb vs 51lb Pump Gas Race Simulation - Distance

Comment:

Now let's see how that bigger wheel helps out off the dyno and on the road (well, the simulated road at least).
As you can see, the 51lb wheel has an advantage right off the bat. As you pull thru the gears, the extra torque above 5k allows the new 51lb wheel to pull farther ahead as time passes. At 15 seconds, the 51lb-wheel car is more then 60 feet ahead. That is 4 car lengths!

Chart 5 - 42lb vs 51lb Pump Gas Race Simulation - Separation

Comment:

As with the above distance plot, the 51lb wheel shows a clear advantage as speeds pass 60mph. At 120mph, the 51lb-wheel car is 32 feet ahead.

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com
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Last edited by PDXTuning; 02-08-2005 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 02-07-2005, 11:38 PM   #2
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... Continued ...

Chart 6 - 42lb vs 51lb Pump Gas Race Simulation - RPM

Comment:

The 51lb-wheel car is able to run higher in the gears due to the additional torque available, and the lower end torque difference is offset by the higher shift points.

Chart 7 - 42lb vs 51lb Pump Gas Race Simulation - HP

Comment:

You can clearly see the car spend more time in the higher hp range of the 51-lb wheel then the lower 42-lb wheel. Even though the torque is slightly higher in the smaller wheel, the total area under the curve combined with the newer shift points makes the 51-lb wheel faster.



Last but not least, the 51-lb wheel car shows a clear advantage in velocity, as it maintains and grows its lead. The new 51-lb wheel acceleration is less sloped as the car is able to maintain more torque at high rpm.

Overall Summary

The 51lb wheel is well worth the cost of admission. I believe the upgrade to the 51lb wheel is something on the order of $300 from the stock GT32s 42lb wheel. Given the slight difference in low end and large gain up top, I think the 51lb wheel is the way to go for those wanting drag racing or track use setups.


Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:04 AM   #3
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Again, an great job of illustrating a number of different choices available. Thanks. But, and this is just an observation, I gotta believe a good FMIC would be preferable, if for nothing else than safety in the summertime, no?

Now, (he asks himself) do I go for the GT32 with the 51lb wheel, or the GT30 for my Oregon canyon machine? Choices, choices, choices...what a bummer!

Let's see, on pump fuel (Oregon 92) we have:

GT32 (51lb wheel) w/ TMIC:
358 hp @ 6500 rpm
330 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm

GT30 w/ WI:
373hp @ 6500 RPM
348lb-ft @ 4700 RPM

Hmmm, add a FMIC to the GT32, delete the WI from the GT30, and what do we have? A coin flip, eh jeff?

Last edited by flycaster; 02-08-2005 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:08 AM   #4
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It is truely a shame that we live in a time when we are forced to make this type of decision.

It was not that long ago that we had the VF30 and the VF22 to chose between! 300whp was the "limit" for the WRX, now we are in the land of 400whp STi WRXs and the is no "limit"


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Old 02-08-2005, 01:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster
Again, an great job of illustrating a number of different choices available. Thanks. But, and this is just an observation, I gotta believe a good FMIC would be preferable, if for nothing else than safety in the summertime, no?

Now, (he asks himself) do I go for the GT32 with the 51lb wheel, or the GT30 for my Oregon canyon machine? Choices, choices, choices...what a bummer!

Let's see, on pump fuel (Oregon 92) we have:

GT32 (51lb wheel) w/ TMIC:
358 hp @ 6500 rpm
330 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm

GT30 w/ WI:
373hp @ 6500 RPM
348lb-ft @ 4700 RPM

Hmmm, add a FMIC to the GT32, delete the WI from the GT30, and what do we have? A coin flip, eh jeff?
Yes indeed. I suspect the GT32 has some significant gains help up in WI. We are going to test with WI very soon, and I'll get that info out to the masses. I think on the high end, the 3052 will always be a bit ahead, but on the low end spool, that GT32 is very nice. For the really big guys, the 35R will be a great on to try as well... And the GT40, well, we will see what we can make of that.

Jeff
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:36 AM   #6
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So... give the GT32(51lb wheel) a FMIC, WI... Jeff What car do you think would win in a 1/4 mile drag??

How close would you say this would be?
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:07 AM   #7
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Im sorry, I didnt see any boost levels for the pump and race fuel results. How much PSI is being pushed to acheive those numbers? Thanks. -Mike-
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:16 AM   #8
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Looks great, but you linked to the Pump gas chart for both charts 1 and 2. Its really cool to see all this R&D being shared with the public.
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Old 02-08-2005, 03:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driggity
Looks great, but you linked to the Pump gas chart for both charts 1 and 2. Its really cool to see all this R&D being shared with the public.
Thanks! I just fixed that.

As for the boost levels, they were about the same on pump gas as before, that being right around 22psi or so. On race gas it was about 24-25psi. In the previous tune, I believe the boost would hit a peak at about 26psi, and then roll down towards redline a lot. Since we were not 100% race fuel, we stuck with the 24ish boost, which still worked very well.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXTuning
Yes indeed. I suspect the GT32 has some significant gains help up in WI. We are going to test with WI very soon, and I'll get that info out to the masses. I think on the high end, the 3052 will always be a bit ahead, but on the low end spool, that GT32 is very nice. For the really big guys, the 35R will be a great on to try as well... And the GT40, well, we will see what we can make of that.

Jeff
When you say the GT35 will be great for the really big guys..are you referring to the twin scroll GT35 (I was just browsing the Garrett catalog and realized there are a lot more twin scroll turbos than I thought)
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Old 02-08-2005, 08:37 AM   #11
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This setup with the 51 lb/min comp wheel looks very impressive. Quick spools with lots of power up top. Finally, the silver bullet turbo.

There will always be questions. What about a good FMIC added into the equation? What if my headers are coated? What if I run a 3.5" TBE? Et cet, et cet... The point here is this gives everybody a very, very good idea of what this setup is capable of doing and compares against the former standard for turbos on the WRX and STis (FPGreen). More options = happier consumers. Nice.

Thanks again for the great info PDX. Look forward to seeing future information/comparisons. These types of threads are what this forum should be all about! Great job.
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Old 02-08-2005, 11:58 AM   #12
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Can you guys post some pics of these setups? I take it you are using a different flanged downpipe/uppipe?

t
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:50 PM   #13
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I love real horsepower...
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:45 PM   #14
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Same comment as previous thread - I'll be curious to see how this car holds up.
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:48 PM   #15
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what turbine housing a/r is on the test car. .69 or .78
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
Same comment as previous thread - I'll be curious to see how this car holds up.
While it certainly is worthwhile concern, it is difficult to ascertain the reliability from a single datapoint. It is very possible this car runs great as is for 10 years while the next one lasts a month, or the reverse. There are so many external factors that directly effect the long term reliability.

Fortunatly, the owner of this car does drive the car pretty hard, and does track the car. That certainly increases the exposure the car gets to harsher environments. From my perspective, on most of these cars fuel quality is one of the largest factors. This owner is willing to run race fuel during track events, which increases the safty margin significantly.

Jeff
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:04 PM   #17
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Good job guys! That new wheel is working great! Is this the larger AR turbine housing? Which 51lb wheel is this Jeff?

Clark
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Old 02-08-2005, 07:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingpin
Good job guys! That new wheel is working great! Is this the larger AR turbine housing? Which 51lb wheel is this Jeff?

Clark
This is the .78 A/R turbine housing (on both the 42 and 51 tests). The .78 comes in external and internal, while the smaller .69 is only available in internal.

I'm not sure about which wheel the 51lb is. I'll check with GPMoto, but I understood it was an optional wheel for the GT32 from Garrett.

Spool is pretty good for such a large A/R, but twin scroll help quite a bit.

Jeff
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Old 02-09-2005, 12:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
Same comment as previous thread - I'll be curious to see how this car holds up.
I'm curious as to why you are saying this?
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Old 02-10-2005, 07:09 PM   #20
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Jeff, you guys never fail to amaze me with the wealth of usefull information you provide. It seemed when I had my DSM that if I wanted anything even as basic as compressor maps or dyno charts I had to beat it out of people with a stick. Yet, somehow, today I caught myself having to take a 15 minute break to let it all soak in. If there is any way of presenting engine output and dynamics on a chart, I'm sure you've given it to us, and that makes cross reference not only easy but basically fool proof. Thanks again for all the help.

As for me, to date, Im most impressed with the 3052 kit w/ water injection. For a street car, its seems like the best mix of power and drivability without having to run race gas. Keep up the good work.

Oh, and Where are you guys located? I know you have a shop in Oregon, but is that PDX's only location, or do you have more? Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2005, 04:12 PM   #21
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Any updates on this setup? How about a Vendor to go through to get a GT32 with the 51lb wheel upgrade? I'm guessing that's the 52 Trim GT35 compressor wheel??? -Chuck
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Old 06-22-2005, 04:00 PM   #22
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Bump for new acceleration simulation data in the original post.
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:35 PM   #23
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Bump from the dead...

Im wondering how the gt32 51mm wheel would work on a 207spec c.

can someone plot a gt30r with the gt32 51 just for comparison?
thanks
-nick
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:36 AM   #24
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HOLY CRAP I havent seen this thread in forever!
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Old 05-15-2007, 10:46 PM   #25
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+1 rfor ideas on performance of the gt32 on a 207
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