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#1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:2017 AMG C43 |
![]() Yes, that is not supposed to be O2 simulator.
My question is, with the emergence of affordable engine management systems (AEM, Hydra) that work well, but remove (or disable) your OBDII port. How come no one has came out with an OBDII simulator. I'm sure many cars with stand alones would pass emissions testing, but because they don't have OBDII diagnostics, they would fail in many states. I'm surprised no one has a device that can plug into the OBDII tester and provide the information the diagnostic computer is looking for. I know there are devices that can go between the two interfaces and "see" what is going on communication wise. You could find out how many times and what responses are needed from your stock ECU when the emissions machine polls your stock ECU for information. If you could make a device that would respond to the emission testing machine just like the OBDII port does, then you could pass. You could even backup your OEM ECU information (especially the serial number) so the OBDII testing machine really thinks it is your cars computer (even down to the serial number) and not a simulator. Does anyone have anything like this in development?
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#2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 49087
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Inside your carnot cycle
Vehicle:1998 RST V8 STi swap '05 R6 '95 BMW V8 hotness |
![]() I would be pretty interested in this as well.
It's not nearly as simple implementing such a hack as you might think. I've read the SAE documents on the OBD communication standard. The feds wanted the OBD2 standard to be fairly robust and somewhat secure to prevent people from doing just this. |
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#3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 2468
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: JAX
Vehicle:08 RS4 05 STi - Gone |
![]() Ohhh - tricky!
(I can imagine CARB lawyers salivating at the lawsuit on this one.) |
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#4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72680
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Tacoma/Spanaway/Graham
Vehicle:2013 Subaru STi Satin White Pearl |
![]() Hopefully before 2010 someone will develop something like this so I dont have to pull the standalone to do emissions then
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#5 |
Trust no one
Moderator Member#: 11170
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:02 RAV4 MT 15 WRX/11 CRZ |
![]() Not likely to happen for the reasons no-coast pointed out above.
The best OBDII simulator is a functioning factory ECU. A substitute is not coming any time soon. |
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#6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:2017 AMG C43 |
![]() I am familiar with serial protocols for other types of interfaces and I don't think this is as difficult as people are thinking. I doubt there is even a secure protocol used for communications. The OBDII systems is polling for certain values...I doubt there are random checks either. It is probably just:
OBDII Checker: Present these values: Stock ECU: Ok, here you go or in the other case: OBDII Checker: Present value A: Stock ECU: Ok, here you go OBDII Checker: Present value B: Stock ECU: Ok, here you go OBDII Checker: Present value C: Stock ECU: Ok, here you go In either case if the computer fails to present the value probably has a tamper setting although it would probably repoll it thinking communication failure and timeout. I suspect that there is actually an interface in the stock ECU that stores the values, because no way do car manufacturers store the same values in the exact same registers, so I don't think this is a hardware lookup. There should be some embedded driver in the stock ECU for OBDII interface and emulating that shouldn't be impossible. And it could be software base with a serial interface. This is probably illegal, but it is the modern equivalent of a shop putting another car on the dyno instead of your so you could pass...anyways how many people drive without a cat on this forum as well. |
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#7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72680
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Tacoma/Spanaway/Graham
Vehicle:2013 Subaru STi Satin White Pearl |
![]() I doubt any large company would come up with something like this but It would not supprise me to see someone figure it out and post plans online for others to make themselves.
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#8 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:2017 AMG C43 |
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#9 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK buy Nates beans westcoastroasting.com |
![]() ....google it and see what you get
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#10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 59287
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:2007 WRB WRX 2004 WRB WRX (RIP) |
![]() Go to openecu.org and look around. The project is about open source EM, but there is a lot of knowledge there. Should be easy to do. You just have to simulate the baud rates, and you can look at the open source scantool.net software to see exactly what is being sent.
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#11 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:2017 AMG C43 |
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#12 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 18308
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:2005 WRX STi Silver |
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More likely would be someone could design plans for such a device, but you would have to get the parts and assemble it yourself. |
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#13 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK buy Nates beans westcoastroasting.com |
![]() ...or to test the test equipement....
![]() ...and the site that I saw before is not listaed on Google anymore.... ![]() It had a DIY OBDII simulator that would report all scans complete and good to go to anyting plugged into the port.... ![]() ![]() |
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#14 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:02 WRX Sedan Silver |
![]() Ease Diagnostics makes an OBD-II emulator - http://www.obd2.com/emissions/data/e...s_ver_test.htm.
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#15 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 59287
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:2007 WRB WRX 2004 WRB WRX (RIP) |
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#16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 56468
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:04 Improved STI Dirty White |
![]() I'd love one of these, but the legality would be highly questionable. I'll come hang out over on openecu.org some more.
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#17 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 17240
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Northern Michigan
Vehicle:2007 STi Black |
![]() So selling a device to spoof an OBD II emissions testing device is a low grade felony or something...
How about a stimulator (virtual engine) for the stock ECU? 1) Install your stand alone ECU of choice. 2) Tune to your satisfaction. 3) Leave the stock computer hooked up to the diagnostic ports on the car (anyone interrogating the car would plug into the OBD port), since the stock Denso computer's wires leading to the sensors and actuators on the engine have been replaced by connectors from the stand alone, hook them up to a box that simply tells the stock computer that everything is just great - a digital lobotomy. That way the car can be run using your stand alone computer of choice and the stock computer can spit out appropriate code for emissions testing. ![]() Now mind you - I have absolutely no idea what this would entail. It may be a project that only a true electronics genius could pull off and why should said genius want to spend his/her time doing this?? Then again - look at Megasquirt. Here we have a do it yourself EEC module, with worldwide support, that was executed by Bowling and Grippo for no better reason than bringing the concept of open source code community engineering to auto enthusiasts. Mike Last edited by Conecrusher; 04-18-2005 at 08:04 PM. |
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#18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 17240
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Northern Michigan
Vehicle:2007 STi Black |
![]() So what do you guys think?
Bump |
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#19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:2017 AMG C43 |
![]() You could definitely interface with the stock ECU, you would have to junction all the inputs to the ECU. Technically you could spoof your ECU...it is only looking for values, so if you present it with the correct values, it will work. It would almost be like a piggyback device...yet it would be between the cars sensors and the stock ECU. So it would probably be an engine simulator.
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#20 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 57307
Join Date: Mar 2004
|
![]() A hacked version of that verification tester would be nice:
Quote:
"It allows you to Read out trouble codes when your "check engine" light comes on. You can also clear these codes. You can retrieve pretty much any piece of OBDII mandated diagnostic data from your vehicle." If only some smart people could figure out how to use the information and create a piggy back that would store this info and send it when an emissions inspector connects. http://www.msjc.edu/autosite/shop_equ.htm Just imagine if somebody made such a device. If the emissions tester only did the OBDII check you could run catless without fear of getting caught at the sniffer test. Last edited by silentbob343; 05-12-2005 at 02:29 AM. |
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#21 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 57307
Join Date: Mar 2004
|
![]() another interesting find:
A guy on this fourm has a new H6 motor and is planning on running 2 ECUs in parallel. A JDM H6 ECU to control AVCS and the Autronic ECU to control fuel, timing, boost, etc... If a person could do this then someone should be able to keep signals running to the ECU to spoof OBDII inspections? |
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#22 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 36852
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North West
Vehicle:2004 STI |
![]() Can someone point me to the vehicle code that says ODB2 emulators is illegal to manufacture, or own?
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#23 | |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:02 WRX Sedan Silver |
![]() Maybe some people are thinking of this EPA cover letter at http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resour...hsysrepair.pdf:
Quote:
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#24 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 42614
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Bullet-Dodging Fwy Los Angeles
Vehicle:0405 WRX STi/S2000 AspenWhite/Silverstone |
![]() Would an EcuTek flashed ECU pass the OBDII?
I got a big APS DR55 turbo, TGV Deletes, Fuel rails , FMIC, TBE (with Random Tech Cat) that I'm gonna install, I bought the Hydra but I would not want to revert back to stock configuration when the time comes in a few years... I would just rather flash the stock ECU and swap it w/ the Hydra Also - since the WRX's are awd - do they just "rev" up the engines w/o any load? |
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#25 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 40413
Join Date: Jul 2003
Vehicle:2001 BRP RS-T EJ257 Link'd - 252WHP 274WTQ |
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