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07-01-2005, 11:46 PM | #1 |
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More damn oil questions
OK... i dont want to be the guy, and i know this has been beaten to death, but since i talked to a tech today i felt the need to ask.
I was at my Subie dealership today to pick up my first oil filter for my month old my05 WRX wagon. While i was in the parts dept, i mentioned i was at 2500 miles and was switching to full synthetic this weekend. The guy behind the desk said NO NO NO. I asked why, and he refered me to the tech in their service bay. I went over and talked to the guy. Now keep in mind im NOT very car savy, which is why im trying to learn all i can. But the guy said that since the engine is aluminum, the break in is 12k miles and i shouldnt switch to synthetic til AFTER at least 10k miles. Now i know this is a debated topic here, cus ive read enough threads about it so far, but does this sound right? He said that this is what Subaru recomends, and said that hes had people bring their car in with issues that were a result of switching to synthetic too soon. Im hoping to do the oil change one way or annother tomorrow, so any tips or opinions you guys have would be GREAT! Thanks in advance
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07-01-2005, 11:56 PM | #2 |
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You want dino oil during the break-in period of the car. There have been some cases where some cars had been found still being broken in at 12,000 miles. So the technician is pretty much dead on...
Stick with dino oil and just do regular maintenance oil changes. At 12k or 15k, then it's pretty safe to switch over to synthetic oil. |
07-01-2005, 11:59 PM | #3 |
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Well if this is the case, any recomendations on brand and type of oil? I was going to use Mobile 1, but if i go dino im clueless.
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07-02-2005, 01:52 AM | #4 |
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You could stick with the factory oil, nothing wrong with that. I like using Castrol GTX for a dino on my previous car.
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07-02-2005, 07:13 AM | #5 | |
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Good advice. |
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07-02-2005, 09:26 AM | #6 |
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Havoline 5w-30 would be an excellent choice, Pennzoil would also be good. I too am waiting until 10k to make the switch over to synthetic. Up until then I'm running conventional oil and semi-synthetic at a 2,500 oil change interval.
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07-05-2005, 12:47 PM | #7 |
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Since you live in AZ, just use 10w-40 in the summer and maybe go back to 10w-30 in the winter until 10k miles. Change it at the severe service interval ie 3750 miles or 3.75 months as a safety precaution. There is nothing wrong with using dino and you won't hurt anything especially when you change it often like every 3750 miles.
Chevron, Castrol, Mobil 5000, etc etc are all good. I personally prefer Mobil 5000 and Chevron dinos though. |
07-05-2005, 01:41 PM | #8 |
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I was going to use 10W-30.... i know little about oil, but again im trying to learn. Why is it that the 40 is better in high heat?
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07-05-2005, 03:49 PM | #9 |
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I switched to synthetic (Mobil 1 5W-30) on my first oil change at 2,500 miles, and I have used it ever since.
My car (02 WRX) currently has 90,000 miles on it, 2.5 seasons of autocrossing, and has seen 16.5 lbs of boost from time-to-time on an MBC. I also switched to synthetic on my previous vehicle in the same manner, and it was still running strong at 95,000 miles until an injector stuck open and broke a conn-rod. I was a technician for 5 years, and we reviewed some comparative studies while I was in college on synthetic vs. standard oil. There really was no evidence that switching to a synthetic "prematurely" would cause a problem. In addition, there was no proof to the other side: that switching to synthetic too "late" would cause issues. In fact, I recently purchased a 92 Chevy Cavalier from a friend. The car has 80,000 miles and has been burning a quart of oil every 750 miles. I switched to synthetic, and I now get nearly twice that much life out of the oil. |
07-05-2005, 03:55 PM | #10 | |
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Follow the recommendations in your owner's manual. Period. 5W30 for temperate to cold climates, 10W30 for hot climates. |
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07-05-2005, 03:59 PM | #11 |
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5w-30 is too thin for me and I don't think it can hold up well to my generally warm climate....the stuff flows like olive oil.
Out in Arizona, I don't think it gets seriously cold during the winters. Sure you have that lovely desert weather (blazingly hot days, frigidly cold nights), but I think 10w30 should be right for you. |
07-05-2005, 04:05 PM | #12 |
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If you are going synthetic, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 is good all year round hot or cold.
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07-05-2005, 04:14 PM | #13 | |
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....And I say again, FOLLOW YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL. You can use whatever brand you want, but use the weights provided therein. |
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07-05-2005, 04:15 PM | #14 |
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0w-30...hmm...that can't be good for track usage...that's WAAY too thin.
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07-05-2005, 04:21 PM | #15 |
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As for the owner's manual, it states you can use straight 30 and 40, plus 20W-50 weight oils under severe conditions, so as long as the oil is below the upper range, 0W-30, 0W-40 are fine.
Off course it is thin for track, use 0W/10W-40. Castrol Syntec 0W-30 cst(Relative Operating Viscosity) is 12, while Mobil 1 10W-30 is 10 and M1 10W-40 is 14, so in terms of increasing thickness: M1 10W-30 < Castrol Syntec 0W-30 < M1 10W-40 Edit: Here are links to each oil's data sheet: M1 10W-30 : http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_10W-30.asp M1 10W-30/40 Extended Performance: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...erformance.asp Castrol Syntec 0W-30 : http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...syntec_usa.pdf Last edited by melayout; 07-05-2005 at 04:28 PM. |
07-06-2005, 01:11 PM | #16 | |
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-Dennis |
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07-06-2005, 01:24 PM | #17 |
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I've read the engine oil maintenance pages at least 10 times and the whole manual twice. Even those that are supposed to know don't, cause I've sch00led the salesman and service manager a few times.
Sometimes when I ask the service manager a question about the car, he tells me, "you probably know more than me". But I've chatted with the techs that actually work on my car and they are very knowledgable, so I'm not worried. |
07-06-2005, 01:45 PM | #18 |
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I guess that even service techs are subject to the oil myths out there. He's wrong. Anyone see any warnings in their owners manual about switching to synthetic? Nope.
http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp |
07-06-2005, 03:35 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
d00d....there are lots of guys that switched too soon and burn oil, now.....YOU wanna try it???? NOT ME.....there are valid reasons for NOT using syn oil too soon......and NO real reason not to wait. If you were an automotive engine engineer, I'd be glad to hear what you think.....if not....not. |
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07-06-2005, 03:48 PM | #20 |
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I switched to synthetic at 7500 miles.
I drive very hard and I'm not sure whether the significant oil consumption I'm getting is a result of that or switching early. The problem is I can't get myself to take it easy for 3000 miles to see if it still burns oil under moderate/normal driving, but I'll try.(Pfft yeah right). I'm not concerned thought, because I haven't noticed any decrease in performance according to my butt-dyno and the car doesn't puff white smoke when I start it. |
07-06-2005, 04:17 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
Umm, if you want anectodal evidence, I switched to synthetic at 3000 miles and then back to conventional 3000 miles later. I then switched back to synthetic and 10,000 miles later I'm not burning a drop. Been the same for every car I ever owned. No, I'm not an engineer, but the guys at Penzoil and Mobil PROBABLY are. No offense, but I'm afraid I beleive them before I believe some kid posting old wives tales on the internet. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ics/Myths.aspx Last edited by Corkfish; 07-06-2005 at 04:38 PM. |
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07-06-2005, 04:38 PM | #22 |
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First, teh Oil Companies have a vested interest in someone using their synthetic oils.
Second, their example of production vehicles using synthetic oil as factory fill doesn't cut it sense since all of those on Mobil 1's list, except maybe the Pontiac GTO, have their engine dynoed in the factory to break it in and performance data is gathered to make sure the engine is good. Therefore, when you drive the car off the showroom, it has already been broken in and therefore the argument that you can use it on your car right off the showroom doesn't hold up if your car's engine wasn't dynoed at the factory. I THINK. |
07-06-2005, 04:43 PM | #23 | |
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Yes, and Dodge really does believe that the sRt-4 is fast4r... Look it's GREAT that some people have had good results using synthetic very early on...congratulations...but frankly it's a risk that I myself am not willing to take. You won't lose a thing by switching to synthetic several thousand miles down the road, but you do risk having an engine that won't perform at its peak if you switch too early. |
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07-06-2005, 04:45 PM | #24 | |
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Quote:
So see, generally, a 5w-30/10w-30 weight oil will work in most weather. However, if you are in Vegas, or AZ, cruising at 100mph under 105F in the interstate, a 5w-30/10w-30 oil may become too thin to lubricate the engine. In that case, 10w-40 oil may do a better job. But don't be too worried if you are using a 5w-30/10w-30, because if Subaru says 5w-30 can be used in all conditions, it will work in all conditions. However, most of us are not satisfied with just "good enough", so we try to use the oil most suitable for our climate and/or driving style. As for the difference between 5w-30 and 10w-30. They are the same at operating temperature at a viscosity equals to 30 weight. But the 5w meets a tougher cold start requirement than the 10w (I don't remember the exact requirements, but it is something like remaining fluid at some measurements (cSt) under certain temperature (-40C or something???)). the 5w is a bit tougher than 10w. But there is always a catch for the better stuff, right? Correct. In the old days, 5w-30 oils shear more than a 10w-30 oil, meaning that 5w-30 suffers more of a viscosity shear after hard use. However, many people say that with the new tech oils nowadays, this difference has been reduced to pretty much insignificant. But, again to many of us who are anal, many still use 10w-30 when they know they won't be starting the car in freezing temperature, where the 5w-30 makes a difference in cold start against the 10w-30. This is because the viscosity difference between the 5w-30 and 10w-30 becomes smaller as it approach operating temperature (see they are the same 30 weight?). In fact, at about 0 C, there is not much viscosity difference already between the 5w and 10w to affect the oil pump. |
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07-06-2005, 05:11 PM | #25 |
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I guess somebody should tell the manufacturers that ship cars out from the factory with synthetic already in them that they're wrong. Someone should also inform Subaru that they'll save money on warranty repairs by warning people in the owners manual not to switch to synthetics too soon. I've seen owners manuals that state that using anything but synthetic will void your warranty ( EVO), but I've never heard of anyone getting their warranty voided by switching to synthetic at 1000 miles. If the evil oil companies are so hot to sell synthetics that they'd lie, why do they also dispell the myth that once you use a synthetic you can't go back to conventional?? Don't be too upset, I used to believe that stuff as well until I did the research and had such success by switching as soon as possible.
Last edited by Corkfish; 07-06-2005 at 11:55 PM. |
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