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Old 08-31-2005, 11:30 PM   #1
Patrick Olsen
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Default Front wheel bearing with higher load rating

As discussed on page 2 of this thread the company that makes our front wheel bearings makes one with identical dimensions and a 10% higher load rating. The "normal" front bearing is FW176 (NTN #4T-CR1-08A01) the higher rated one is FW105 (NTN #4T-CR1-0881 or -0823). I emailed SKF Seals (the company that makes the bearings I bought at Checkers) to see if the FW105 would fit on my car. I'm waiting on a 2nd reply from them (they had to consult NTN in Japan), but in the meantime I've been doing some more research.

According to NAPA, the FW105 is used on... drumroll, please... the '87-91 Subaru XT. Hmmmm, sounds promising. It also fits some mid-80s Nissans (Maxima and something else). The fact that the bearing was used in a Subaru application bodes well, methinks. I'm still waiting to hear for sure from SKF that the FW105 can be used in place of the FW176.

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Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 10-20-2009 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:36 PM   #2
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thanks pat!
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:38 PM   #3
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cool, this might be a great step to some extra piece of mind.
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Old 09-03-2005, 07:05 PM   #4
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The guy at SKF Seals, Roberto, is still awaiting a reply back from NTN in Japan. However, Roberto's last email to me made me realize what might be different on the two bearing units...

Quote:
Patrick,
I still haven't heard from Japan, but from talking to some of the engineers here it is not recommended to stray from the Subaru design. Because chamfers on the edges of the bore could be different, the fit on the spindle might not match up. I will let you know as soon as I find out.
Makes perfect sense. The inner race is chamfered, as is the hub where the bearing comes to rest once the hub is pressed on fully. If the chamfer didn't match up right, the hub wouldn't be able to seat properly in the bearing, which would definitely cause problems.

So I went back to the parts store and had them pull an FW105 off the shelf to compare to the FW176 I already have. As far as I can tell the chamfer is identical. That's just eyeballing it, though, so don't take my word for it. I went ahead and returned the FW176s I had bought and bought 2 FW105s so I can do both sides. Hopefully I'm not screwing myself.

Pat
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Old 09-03-2005, 09:04 PM   #5
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for 05+STi users (those with the 5x114 bolt pattern), Subaru offers a competition-rated front hub assembly (with bearing) and the pricing (if you can find somebody to import them from Japan) is reasonable:

Quote:


SUBARU TECNICA INTERNATIONAL INC. will add "Hub Unit Complete (F)" exclusively for competition use for IMPREZA to its products line up, which will be on sale. through STI parts agencies.

This "Hub Unit Complete (F)" was developed for IMPREZA to be used exclusively in competition and the life of the front hub unit is extended by changing grease that is sealed up in a Fuji Heavy Industries' genuine part for the GDBE type into remarkably functional one which is anti-rusting, anti-fretting (lessen wear and fatigue in reciprocating slide-movement) and highly durable. The unit aims at competing on a long itinerary such as in an international rally with the Group N car.
http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/e/GRN/pa.../sti05013.html
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Old 09-03-2005, 11:59 PM   #6
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Pat- hope it works Nick- nice find, too bad they didn't offer that for us "old" 5X100 guys.
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Old 09-04-2005, 01:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX
Pat- hope it works
Well... not so much. It's not that the bearing doesn't fit - I didn't get that far. Due to parts availability, I ended up picking up 1 FW105 from Checkers (in a Federal Mogul package) and one from NAPA (in an SKF package). As I was getting ready to repack the Federal Mogul bearing with Mobil1 grease, I noticed that the internals weren't the same NTN stuff that the FW176 bearings were. I pulled out the SKF one and sure enough it was the same. So, rather than getting the NTN 4T-CR1-0881/-0823 that I thought I was getting, instead I had NSK (also from Japan) 42KWD02A1. Grrrr... Back to the computer to do some parts research.

So, I find their catalog at http://www.jp.nsk.com/app01/en/pdf/p...Q5Q1VPPCY1Tgo= and get down to page 31. There they have listed a 42KWD02A (but no "1" on the end - I presume it's the same part, though) which has a load rating of only 76,500lbs, only marginally better than the 75,000lbs that I started with. (Interestingly enough, NSK's catalog shows the inner race chamfer dimensions, which is the "mystery" piece of data when comparing FW105 vs. FW176).

Now, if I plug 42KWD02A into SKF's part number cross-reference page, it comes up with 42KWD02A = FW105, and 42KWD02A1 = FW176. Sunuvabitch! So after returning the "weaker" bearings at NAPA and Checkers and picking up the "better" bearings from each place, it turns out I gained nothing.

At this point, I think I'm inclined to just go with what I've got. I might be able to find the "real" FW105 bearings online somewhere. Of course, if I go that route it would take a few days to get stuff shipped to me, in which case I'd end up having to wait until next weekend to get the car back together. Bah!

Pat

PS - The evidence is still circumstantial at best, but I more convinced after using SKF's cross-reference parts search that the FW105 will fit in place of the FW176 with no issues.
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Old 09-04-2005, 02:13 AM   #8
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Interesting stuff Pat!
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Old 09-04-2005, 02:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhluhr
for 05+STi users (those with the 5x114 bolt pattern), Subaru offers a competition-rated front hub assembly (with bearing) and the pricing (if you can find somebody to import them from Japan) is reasonable:
Any other details, like how much they cost/where are they available from?

Edit: Oh, and Pat, you freakin rule for doing all that work
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Old 09-04-2005, 10:03 AM   #10
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Geez- what a hassle, it'll be worth it if you can source the right ones (ofcourse I'm sure you'd like to be able to drive too )

This is life when your on the cutting edge
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Old 09-04-2005, 02:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
Well... not so much. It's not that the bearing doesn't fit - I didn't get that far. Due to parts availability, I ended up picking up 1 FW105 from Checkers (in a Federal Mogul package) and one from NAPA (in an SKF package). As I was getting ready to repack the Federal Mogul bearing with Mobil1 grease, I noticed that the internals weren't the same NTN stuff that the FW176 bearings were. I pulled out the SKF one and sure enough it was the same. So, rather than getting the NTN 4T-CR1-0881/-0823 that I thought I was getting, instead I had NSK (also from Japan) 42KWD02A1. Grrrr... Back to the computer to do some parts research.

So, I find their catalog at http://www.jp.nsk.com/app01/en/pdf/p...Q5Q1VPPCY1Tgo= and get down to page 31. There they have listed a 42KWD02A (but no "1" on the end - I presume it's the same part, though) which has a load rating of only 76,500lbs, only marginally better than the 75,000lbs that I started with. (Interestingly enough, NSK's catalog shows the inner race chamfer dimensions, which is the "mystery" piece of data when comparing FW105 vs. FW176).

Now, if I plug 42KWD02A into SKF's part number cross-reference page, it comes up with 42KWD02A = FW105, and 42KWD02A1 = FW176. Sunuvabitch! So after returning the "weaker" bearings at NAPA and Checkers and picking up the "better" bearings from each place, it turns out I gained nothing.

At this point, I think I'm inclined to just go with what I've got. I might be able to find the "real" FW105 bearings online somewhere. Of course, if I go that route it would take a few days to get stuff shipped to me, in which case I'd end up having to wait until next weekend to get the car back together. Bah!

Pat

PS - The evidence is still circumstantial at best, but I more convinced after using SKF's cross-reference parts search that the FW105 will fit in place of the FW176 with no issues.
Well seeing what you are attempting I tried to help but I think I am no further. I work at Napa and pulled both the FW176 and the FW105 off the shelf. Both bearings contain NSK internals but sadly enough they are both 42KWD02A1 internals. I checked my cross reference in my computer and my book, in both the 42KWD02A crosses to the FW105 and the 42KWD02A1 crosses to the FW176. In the book there is also another number that crosses to the FW105 (it happens to be another NSK number), 42KWD02AG3CA123. Next to the number there are 2 astericks but I searched the book front to back and it gives no explanations of what the astericks would mean (why have an asterick with no explanation). The same asterick is next to the 42KWD02A1 (right below it in the book). I would assume it is something signifying that they are interchangeable. But that is just an assumption. I don't know if that other number will help you on your quest but I am interested in whatever you find.
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Old 10-04-2005, 02:27 PM   #12
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All of this is excelent information.

I've located the NTN original higher specification bearings through www.bearingdepot.com. Ask for George if interested, they seem to cost less than $50 and they have them in stock. I was worried about speed/temperature rating, but after reading all this, I think It's not a problem. Anybody willing to try these? NTN 4T-CRI-0823 ?

Vlad
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Old 10-04-2005, 05:04 PM   #13
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the description for the sti hub makes it sound like a stock hub w/ synthetic grease....you could pack your own bearings w/ redline grease and call it a day
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Old 10-05-2005, 09:51 AM   #14
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good thread. please keep it updated as more info gets accumulated.
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Old 05-20-2006, 07:58 PM   #15
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Hey guys - we looked at an FW105, and FW176 side by side here, and they did look to be a little different. We threw the FW105 on the STi, and we're going to see how it does.
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Old 05-21-2006, 10:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhluhr
for 05+STi users (those with the 5x114 bolt pattern), Subaru offers a competition-rated front hub assembly (with bearing) and the pricing (if you can find somebody to import them from Japan) is reasonable:



http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/e/GRN/pa.../sti05013.html
LEt us know we can get these for you no problem.


First used at the NURB in 2005 on the Enthusia STI, and now for Group-N.

THe old rally guys had their bearings packed and resealed with super hardcore grease and that last a season I have told by various tarmac guys.

Jamie( SUbie Gal) could prob jump in on that claim.

But these STI comp bearing are sealed and come with different grease in them.

(not on RCE yet, as we are redesning site)

call for questions.

Myles
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:55 AM   #17
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Go here for the answer about the up-rated Nissan bearing for the 5x100 impreza hub:
Bearings and Grease:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=Wheel+Bearing

(post #2 talks about the higher load rated bearing.)
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Old 05-22-2006, 12:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyveWRX
Go here for the answer about the up-rated Nissan bearing for the 5x100 impreza hub:
Bearings and Grease:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=Wheel+Bearing

(post #2 talks about the higher load rated bearing.)
Yep, now if we can just get a link from that thread to this one, and then this one to the guru's guide we could have this whole circle of wheel bearing talk that will drive folks bonkers.

BTW, I have some picks of worn hubs that I need to post in the threads to illustrate some of the problems folks will run into.
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Old 05-22-2006, 04:42 PM   #19
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The front and rear bearings are not the same I assume. I've done both front and rear wheel bearings and so.....we're talking about the front bearings only, ya?

So best would be:
Nissan front bearings? (how should I ask for this bearing, what model?)
Legacy rear bearings? (Choose what Legacy generation and model/trim?)
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:59 PM   #20
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NTN #4T-CR1-0823 for the front- they should have WRX's in the sytem by now- I'd specify the WRX rear.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:14 PM   #21
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I'm having a FW105 pressed in as we speak. Sure hope it works!
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:28 PM   #22
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Im deff going to run these

THANKS!
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:05 PM   #23
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Putting these on my car thanks to TIC. I hope someone can get all this info in one place for people because I know I was pretty confused untill I called TIC.

Should be installing the new bearings and hubs this weekend if everything goes to plan.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
I'm having a FW105 pressed in as we speak. Sure hope it works!
BTW, FW105 has been replaced. I think the new part is FW176, but don't quote me.

Tony
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:41 PM   #25
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Hahah! Oh nooo!! Isn't FW176 the weaker one that we're trying to replace with the stronger FW105?
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