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Old 09-20-2005, 02:43 PM   #1
PDXTuning
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Default 500whp on the FP Red

As we mentioned in a previous thread about the Forced Performance Red, we intended to push the turbo in a US STI platform. We installed this FP Red, along with the 8CM turbine side (from my 8cm Green) into one of the PDXTuning STIs. Other supporting mods include:

Fully balanced and printed block with CP Pistons
Supersecret assembly technique (just kidding! Tim and I build the block in my garage!)
Stock heads, gaskets, and cams
ARP Head Studs
Forced Performance FP Red with uber cool 8cm turbine housing and 3" inlet.
Perrin FMIC
Perrin Intake
Perrin Modified Injectors
Perrin BigInlet for 3" turbos
TurboXS Turboback exhaust (catless)
AVCR Boost Controller
Exede Hypersingle Clutch
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Cobb AccessPort with ProTuner



The purpose of the test was to push both a pump gas and a race gas (C16) tune.

The pump gas tune produced the results below. As is obvious, the actual hp would be a bit higher if the dyno had been setup to run a few mph farther, as torque was still holding pretty well. Still we were able to squeeze out 406whp on pump 92 octane. The pump gas boost was about 24psi, and the C16 tune was peaking at about 30psi, running down to 29 at redline.

With the addition of C16 and boost, HP jumped to 507whp, which is a pretty good gain given the under the manifold turbo limitations.



Here is a snapshot of the C16 data. I donít have IDCs or Boost as Tim didnít log those with the Protuner. Iíll see if I can get a street run of the spoolup for comparison.



The most obvious question to come from this data is how did this turbo beat the GT35R? Before anyone jumps the gun, give us some time to complete the comparison. The GT353R tune I did on my car has a number of differences, including: Less boost (as per the posted datalogs, my boost peaked closer to about 28psi because I was hitting the boost cut on the UTEC), a MUCH more restrictive input to the turbo (I had some really old fuel rails that were in the way, so the 4Ē inlet jumped down to almost 2.5Ēs right as it passed the manifold), and less tuning time due to a few hoses that kept coming loose.

Rest assured we will be going back very soon to make this right and see what we can really get out of the 35R on our dyno.

None the less, the faster spoolup and amazing torque of the Red are hard to argue with. You really can get the power without the lag.

Take a look:





Not only do you get better spoolup, but you loose very little over running a green. This green is a Water Injection tune, as most of the regular Greens get more in the 330-340 range.



Finally, here is a snapshot of Timís car in our new shop!



More to come..

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com
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Last edited by PDXTuning; 09-22-2005 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:43 PM   #2
PDXTuning
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Default

Holder for more data...
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:47 PM   #3
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Man, posts like these make me wanna say "SCREW RETIREMENT!" and raid my 401K....
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fogdor
Man, posts like these make me wanna say "SCREW RETIREMENT!" and raid my 401K....
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:03 PM   #5
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It may not really matter because of the other restrictions on the GT35R setup but what turbine housing was this with?

Great numbers on the Red. The low end looks comparable to the Green on the dyno, but how does it compare in terms of feel on the street? Does it lose much in terms of responsiveness?
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:11 PM   #6
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in a prior pdx post somewhere, there was a comment about there being a noticable difference in perceived throttle response ("true lag" let's call it) between the green and the red. I.e. stomping the gas above boost threshold resulted in more wait time for target boost on the red. Do you guys still feel that way?
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:11 PM   #7
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great post yet again, cant wait to come home and let you guys tune my 06 with a red
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:12 PM   #8
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Must, cut credit cards now....must resist...
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:16 PM   #9
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still internally gated??? wow!
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:47 PM   #10
MARKGSTI
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Very nice write up, congrats on the power #'s.

Impressive.
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:52 PM   #11
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Jeff could you fill us in on your experience in this case with Perrin Modified Injectors (i.e. how did you like them, any thing about them you didn't like, any issues, would have preffered other injectors if you were to do it again etc).

Nice results and thanks for sharing as always. Thanks.
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:55 PM   #12
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also, 30 degs of advance at 7000 !!!

Acessport timing must be different than UTEC timing?
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexRex2002
also, 30 degs of advance at 7000 !!!

Acessport timing must be different than UTEC timing?
I noticed that too, and im sure the timings are not different :|

But hey...race gas works wonders.



Scoobs
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:36 PM   #14
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NICE very nice...
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:45 PM   #15
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Wow very impressed on spool up over the 35R.. What if you ran the motor out to 7800 or 8000 RPM would it drop off like a cliff??
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:50 PM   #16
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Can't help but wonder how a green with an 8cm housing and EWG would do on pump and WI.
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:55 PM   #17
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What's that MAF voltage...about 4.7~?
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Old 09-20-2005, 05:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexRex2002
in a prior pdx post somewhere, there was a comment about there being a noticable difference in perceived throttle response ("true lag" let's call it) between the green and the red. I.e. stomping the gas above boost threshold resulted in more wait time for target boost on the red. Do you guys still feel that way?

I'll let Tim comment directly, but you are correct that even though the boost threshold is about the same, the real lag is more. Tim can comment how much, but by my seat of the pants, it's not too much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexRex2002
also, 30 degs of advance at 7000 !!!

Acessport timing must be different than UTEC timing?
It sometimes appears that the UTEC timing is a bit less, but this was a lot of timing due to the C16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilmore25
Wow very impressed on spool up over the 35R.. What if you ran the motor out to 7800 or 8000 RPM would it drop off like a cliff??
I thought the same thing. The cams might cause more rollloff, but certainly there is still a bit more there at the very upper end!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombat North
Can't help but wonder how a green with an 8cm housing and EWG would do on pump and WI.
I'm sure it would do better, but at some point, the compressor is a limiting factor. The 49 lb wheel is no match for the 65lber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
What's that MAF voltage...about 4.7~?
According to the datalog, 4.8 volts, with the BigMAF.

Cheers,

Jeff
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Old 09-20-2005, 06:16 PM   #19
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Well come on Tim, I am impatiently waiting!!! Great numbers, congratulations. Makes me want a red rather than a GT35R now, just can't get over the difference in lag and where it makes the power. I am also waiting on the new GT35R dyno sheet, any timeframe on when we might see that? Thanks for posting your finds, and numbers, again, just awesome!
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Old 09-20-2005, 06:30 PM   #20
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I think after seeing that i might be going with an FP red.... unless i see a similar graph from the 35 in the future.
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:26 PM   #21
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Very nice collection of data. It is always refreshing to see testing performed in a complete and thorough manner.
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Old 09-21-2005, 12:15 AM   #22
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Impressions on protune vs ecutek and utec? I know in the past pdx has advocated the use of the utec on top of a reflash.
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:19 AM   #23
RadarOnPaws
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Jeff, Tim, I was told the 8 cm housing isn't in production anymore on the FP's, only the 7... is that correct?
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:42 AM   #24
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this with stock heads? no porting?
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:09 AM   #25
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stock heads, just as its listed above just good old forged pistons.

Ben
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