Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 22, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2008, 02:16 AM   #1601
Soul Shinobi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 130759
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southern NH, USA
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S

Default Used Cocktail Seperation

This was from a 1997 Impreza Outback Sport, it was in there for 7,156 miles. The car and pictures belong to Legacy777, a site admin at Legacy Central, he is also a member here. Notice the three distinct layers.

This is how the cocktail looks in your transmission in the morning--Let there be no further skepticism; behold, the separation of a used Uncle Scotty's Cocktail:

Gallery: http://www.main.experiencetherave.co...ages/cocktail/

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Soul Shinobi; 07-06-2008 at 12:10 PM.
Soul Shinobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-06-2008, 03:28 AM   #1602
DS1
Vendor
 
Member#: 111780
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Default

^^ You're my hero for the week
DS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:48 AM   #1603
ciper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Vehicle:
555 Having a Subaru
shop means too many cars

Default

So if the 5mt is splash lubricated, and the fluid separates, does that mean you are essentially lubricating the trans with whatever fluid floats to the top?
ciper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:59 AM   #1604
Legacy777
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4800
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, Tx
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy & OB XT
AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap

Default

Added a few more pictures in the daylight.
Legacy777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 12:28 PM   #1605
Soul Shinobi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 130759
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southern NH, USA
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S

Default

I changed the picture in the post to one of the newer ones, thanks for taking more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
So if the 5mt is splash lubricated, and the fluid separates, does that mean you are essentially lubricating the trans with whatever fluid floats to the top?
The transmission doesn't have a deep pan like the engine does for oil, so I'd think that different parts of the transmission just get a different lubricant in the morning. The input shaft would get what ever is on top, and the output shaft and front differential would share the bottom two layers.

Soul Shinobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 11:33 PM   #1606
2slofouru
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:
My BOV goes
COVFEFE!

Default

Haha, looks like the jars we made in kindergarten with chalk and sand. Multicolor layers
2slofouru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 07:30 PM   #1607
jhargis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110304
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crestline, CA
Vehicle:
2004 Volvo S60R
No more Subie

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shinobi View Post
Wow... Well, there you have it folks. That's 3 really distinct layers, much more clear than I could have guessed. Crazy.

Glad I only had that stuff in there for a little while. Such a clear seperation can't be good.

Used transmissions are a big risk. Take it from a guy who blew up 2 of them in a 6 month period, a bearing failure on the original trans the first time and chipped teeth on the 2nd trans. Then I put in a JDM tranny and 3rd time was a charm. Probably better to just have it rebuilt the right way. The money I spent on busted transmissions is only about $1000 shy of a PPG gearset, but unfortunately I needed a car right away and didn't have the whole $5,000 laying around at any one time.

I'll still stand with this opinion: The cocktail MAY be worth it if you need something to hold you over for a little while until you can get a better transmission, perhaps if you're planning a 6 speed or gearset swap down the road, or if you have an old tired trans that you'll eventually replace/rebuild anyway. Just be aware that running that stuff *could* cause a more expensive rebuild if extra parts have to be replaced during the rebuild because of excessive wear... That's a cross you may have to bear down the road.

Last edited by jhargis; 07-10-2008 at 02:38 PM.
jhargis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:41 PM   #1608
prometheum
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92003
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tatooine
Vehicle:
04 bicycle!

Default

why would separation be a problem? just having the car idle for 2 or 3 seconds should mix it all up again...
prometheum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:41 PM   #1609
flstffxe
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155358
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Vehicle:
2008 Forester
Steel Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shinobi View Post
This was from a 1997 Impreza Outback Sport, it was in there for 7,156 miles. The car and pictures belong to Legacy777, a site admin at Legacy Central, he is also a member here. Notice the three distinct layers.

This is how the cocktail looks in your transmission in the morning--Let there be no further skepticism; behold, the separation of a used Uncle Scotty's Cocktail:

Gallery: http://www.main.experiencetherave.co...ages/cocktail/




What was that a bunch of us were saying about different base oils and additives not mixing and not playing nice with each other.... and we are the idiots


The Question(post #127):
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_WRX View Post
Hey Scotty...

I'm curious. After all these years, how'd you figure out this formulation? Is it recommended just for our subies or will this concoction work in other mt vehicles (within reason of course)?

MT
The Answer(post #131):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
...the easy one first......dunno, really----there is no reason that it shouldn't work for MT's that require the same kind of lube.....some MT's may take some weird junk that would not like the 'cocktail'......but I just don't know.
YMMV....

....ok....the hard(er) one.....As an FAA licensed A&P aircraft mechanic, I understand a little about lubrication and lubricants and why certain properties of lubrication are necessary in certain places and the issues that improper lubrication can cause.....the 5MT seemed to me to be failing due to shock loading(and abuse )...and since there is so much different junk in the same lube bath that needs different lubrication to work right.....

Since the 5MT's were giving problems, I did a LOT of reading around the 'net.....I found reference to the Synchromesh and read all that jizz.....and the Shockproof was being used by lots of racing teams for MT's......and----well....another board member posted a question about the HypoyC and its use in the 5MT.....and after reading the MSDS and the spec sheet for IT........

Uncle had the cocktail plan


Wonderwhatallthatinthetrannyallatthesametimewouldd o.....MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
flstffxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:02 PM   #1610
flstffxe
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155358
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Vehicle:
2008 Forester
Steel Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prometheum View Post
why would separation be a problem? just having the car idle for 2 or 3 seconds should mix it all up again...

If they don't mix into a solution(definition below) the oil will remain in little spheres or globules(similar to a lava lamp, alcohol and mineral oil) thus at some points in time parts are not getting the proper oil they require. What "Uncle Scotty" has made here is a suspension(definition below).

The fact also remains that none of these oils in "Uncle Scotty's Cocktail" meet Subaru's requirements for the 5MT




Definitions (Via Google):

Solution - Mixture in which the molecules of one substance (solute) are dissolved in another substance (solvent).

Suspension - The particles of a substance are mixed with a fluid but are undissolved, then can be seen and easily separated with a filter or by resting stagnant.
flstffxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:13 PM   #1611
jhargis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110304
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crestline, CA
Vehicle:
2004 Volvo S60R
No more Subie

Default

I'd be curious to see what this stuff looks like while the gears are moving... I wonder if it mixes to a more homogeneous appearance or if it does what dissimilar liquids do when you shake them (think Italian salad dressing).

I know oil bases that don't mix well also tend to get a lot more air bubbles in the mixture when stirred up by gears, even to the point of frothing sometimes. That would be no good as air bubbles do not lubricate nearly as well as oil.
jhargis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 09:29 AM   #1612
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

As a follow-up, I drained the cocktail last week and replaced it with Amsoil 75w-90 severe gear.

The USC (12K miles on it) was starting to change slightly in feel, and I wanted to get back to a GL-5 fluid.

The drain plug had NO/ZERO/ZILCH filings on it.

After a 700-mile trip over the weekend, I'm VERY pleased with the Amsoil. No 5->4 downshift grind like when I was running straight Redline.

The Amsoil is pure gold, and I can leave it in for more than a year.
Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 09:31 AM   #1613
Soul Shinobi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 130759
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southern NH, USA
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S

Default

Just drained my cocktail, going to have it analyzed. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/


Please see the Official Transmission Fluid Analysis Thread

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1489327

Last edited by Soul Shinobi; 07-08-2008 at 10:20 AM.
Soul Shinobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:09 AM   #1614
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT
20 OB Onyx XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
...I drained the cocktail last week and replaced it with Amsoil 75w-90 severe gear.
...The Amsoil is pure gold,
I swapped to Severe Gear last weekend as well, and I love it. It does have Friction Modifiers, but I guess it's just the right amount for our gearboxes.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 05:34 PM   #1615
prometheum
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92003
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tatooine
Vehicle:
04 bicycle!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flstffxe View Post
If they don't mix into a solution(definition below) the oil will remain in little spheres or globules(similar to a lava lamp, alcohol and mineral oil) thus at some points in time parts are not getting the proper oil they require. What "Uncle Scotty" has made here is a suspension(definition below).

The fact also remains that none of these oils in "Uncle Scotty's Cocktail" meet Subaru's requirements for the 5MT




Definitions (Via Google):

Solution - Mixture in which the molecules of one substance (solute) are dissolved in another substance (solvent).

Suspension - The particles of a substance are mixed with a fluid but are undissolved, then can be seen and easily separated with a filter or by resting stagnant.
i still don't see the problem

redline light weight shockproof is a suspension anyway. but my point is each layer is a type of gear oil and after a few miles of driving around its going to be mixed up pretty well
prometheum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 06:10 PM   #1616
flstffxe
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155358
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Vehicle:
2008 Forester
Steel Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prometheum View Post
i still don't see the problem

redline light weight shockproof is a suspension anyway. but my point is each layer is a type of gear oil and after a few miles of driving around its going to be mixed up pretty well
The fact also remains that none of these oils in "Uncle Scotty's Cocktail" meet Subaru's requirements for the 5MT is not a problem?

Also, redline light weight shockproof is a suspension of particals not oils like the cocktail is, it does make a difference.
flstffxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 04:07 AM   #1617
WRXbrother
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 141182
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Michigan/Illinois
Vehicle:
96 Impreza Coupe
Black

Default

We put a cocktail in my brother's 02 with 140k miles. he's a good driver and doesn't beat on it too hard but it is well modded. it was grinding in 1st, 4th and occationally 2nd. it's been 3 months since the cocktail and 10k miles and it has not ginde into any gears since.
WRXbrother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 01:00 PM   #1618
Steve Nastoff
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 52052
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
03 Subaru WRX
Midnight Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
im still here cockbreath

ive just deceided that there are so many idiots and asswholes on this board that just couldn't find their asses with both hands that i have given up and let the idiots follow the morons and the lemmings off the cliff and drown.

this thread is just another example of one asswhole coming in here and posting bull**** about this claiming all sorts of neboulous garbage with no real proof of anything
AND just because some monkey rebuilds transmissions all day does not mean that they actually know anything about what they are made of and why they really fail....which is 99% bad driving and drivers


FOR ONCE AND ALL



PISS OFF
I wondered where you have been. Can't say that I blame you for being frustrated. NASIOC has gone the way of most forums. Name calling, arguments for the sake of arguing and everybody is an expert.
Steve Nastoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 02:16 PM   #1619
jhargis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110304
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crestline, CA
Vehicle:
2004 Volvo S60R
No more Subie

Default

^^^ Wow. That post was way back in April, but I missed it. Way to defend your mix Scotty, so professional. I'd really trust somebody that speaks that way to formulate all of my lubricants He calls everybody stupid and childish so often, that he must be very intelligent and mature. I bet he has an IQ of 300 with all of that perfect grammar and scientific research, and I bet his flatulence carries the soothing scent of rainbows and lavender. Those of us who disagree with him just don't have the intelligence to recognize the error of our ways.

This thread in a nutshell:

Scotty: "I mixed up a whole bunch of stuff and it works... morons"
Subaru Owner #1: "This stuff works great!"
Subaru Owner #2: "I think I'll try that cocktail mix"
Scotty: "Go ahead idiot"

A month later...

Subaru Owner #1: "Still great"
Subaru Owner #2: "Eh, some others like it, but I don't think it's for me and I'm not sure I like all of this stuff mixed together plus having to change it so often is a little odd to me."
Scotty: "Piss off cockbreath. Anybody who doesn't agree with me and doesn't like my ideas must be a moron. Everybody in the world is an idiot!"

There, I think I just summed up a huge thread in a few lines of text.

Again, some like it, some don't. That doesn't make one side right and the other wrong. If you use the stuff, it might work wonders for you or you might be dissappointed, but don't be surprized if it causes a denied warranty claim and always proceed with caution any time you use a product or mix of products that doesn't carry the mfg. suggested ratings.

Last edited by jhargis; 07-10-2008 at 02:36 PM.
jhargis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 08:51 PM   #1620
flstffxe
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155358
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Vehicle:
2008 Forester
Steel Silver

Default

^^^ very well said jhargis.
flstffxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 10:01 PM   #1621
Soul Shinobi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 130759
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southern NH, USA
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S

Default

Alright, this first analysis has been posted! It's from my '92 Legacy, which is far off from your WRX's, but it's a start:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2#post22939502
Soul Shinobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 10:40 PM   #1622
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shinobi View Post
Alright, this first analysis has been posted! It's from my '92 Legacy, which is far off from your WRX's, but it's a start:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2#post22939502
What in the tranny is made from iron?
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 12:27 AM   #1623
2slofouru
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:
My BOV goes
COVFEFE!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
^^^ Wow. That post was way back in April, but I missed it. Way to defend your mix Scotty, so professional. I'd really trust somebody that speaks that way to formulate all of my lubricants He calls everybody stupid and childish so often, that he must be very intelligent and mature. I bet he has an IQ of 300 with all of that perfect grammar and scientific research, and I bet his flatulence carries the soothing scent of rainbows and lavender. Those of us who disagree with him just don't have the intelligence to recognize the error of our ways.

This thread in a nutshell:

Scotty: "I mixed up a whole bunch of stuff and it works... morons"
Subaru Owner #1: "This stuff works great!"
Subaru Owner #2: "I think I'll try that cocktail mix"
Scotty: "Go ahead idiot"

A month later...

Subaru Owner #1: "Still great"
Subaru Owner #2: "Eh, some others like it, but I don't think it's for me and I'm not sure I like all of this stuff mixed together plus having to change it so often is a little odd to me."
Scotty: "Piss off cockbreath. Anybody who doesn't agree with me and doesn't like my ideas must be a moron. Everybody in the world is an idiot!"

There, I think I just summed up a huge thread in a few lines of text.

Again, some like it, some don't. That doesn't make one side right and the other wrong. If you use the stuff, it might work wonders for you or you might be dissappointed, but don't be surprized if it causes a denied warranty claim and always proceed with caution any time you use a product or mix of products that doesn't carry the mfg. suggested ratings.

X eleventybillion!
2slofouru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 12:14 PM   #1624
jhargis
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110304
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crestline, CA
Vehicle:
2004 Volvo S60R
No more Subie

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superorb View Post
What in the tranny is made from iron?
I haven't a clue what equipment Blackstone uses for their analysis... Not positive, but wouldn't steel show its iron component under some forms of testing? Perhaps in a spectrometer? After all, steel is basically just iron + carbon + the Bessemer proccess, right? Steel is a ferrous metal, so it also rusts. And rust is iron oxide, so I'm not sure if that would affect the results either, but it would not be confidence inspiring to have a high amount of iron oxide in the oil... that would be a bad sign.

Any chemists in the house? Please chime in and correct me if I'm way off.

Last edited by jhargis; 07-11-2008 at 01:24 PM.
jhargis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 10:21 PM   #1625
2slofouru
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:
My BOV goes
COVFEFE!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superorb View Post
What in the tranny is made from iron?
The gears are steel alloy with iron in the mixture. That is why a magnet will attract the iron/ferrous shavings. There are undoubtedly very small iron particles in suspension in the used cocktail, or any used transmission oil for that matter.
2slofouru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who uses Uncle Scotty's cocktail? Impr3zy0u Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 27 03-10-2018 09:32 PM
Bartender: One Chim's cocktail please. chimchimm5 Off-Topic 0 06-30-2007 04:34 PM
FS: One (1) Uncle Scotty's Cocktail FunkMasta VIC Private Classifieds 14 05-07-2007 10:09 PM
uncle scotty's cocktail with superlight? RUrunning Service & Maintenance 8 11-12-2005 04:29 PM
Update: Uncle Scotty's cocktail with 80w90 hype-R-29 Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 17 09-07-2005 08:36 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.