Pre-turbo WI

rewt · 01-18-2006, 02:24 PM

Hey everyone... I figured this section would be the best place for the question, so I hope I'm right. I basically was interested in opinions on the best way to accomplish pre-turbo WI...

Is there a kit that already exists for this?
If not, what sort of nozzle should be run? Based on reading about aiming the water at the compressor nut, I would assume a typical misting nozzle used for post-turbo WI would not work... or would it?
Would I need to run more pressure in pre-turbo WI?

Any information about this would be much appreciated. TIA

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

bboy · 01-18-2006, 02:34 PM

No kit.
Have to be careful of backflow so use check valves (boost will push water into intake).
Use a mist, not a stream.
You'll need very good boost control.

I'd say this is an advanced form of water injection. I'd set up post-turbo water injection first before you turn to pre-turbo injection. Pre-turbo has it's place, but it definately complicates the whole set up. I'd be sure you are really comfortable with water injection in general before you turn to trying to compress more air with it.

TheMadScientist · 01-18-2006, 02:44 PM

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267
You might have to sign up to view that. But it is ~20 pages about pre turbo WI.
It is a good place to start.

TMS

rewt · 01-18-2006, 02:44 PM

I've been running post-turbo WI for a while. I'm interested in pre-turbo WI, but I was looking for more information (like nozzles, pump pressure, etc) before trying it.

rewt · 01-18-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267
You might have to sign up to view that. But it is ~20 pages about pre turbo WI.
It is a good place to start.

TMS

Thanks! Sign-up is not a problem if the info is good

rewt · 01-18-2006, 07:41 PM

My thanks to TMS; the thread on WI.info is great. Just the type of information and discussion I was looking for.

Uncle Scotty · 01-18-2006, 10:35 PM

....IIRC, hotrod has done this....mebbe he will chime in and give us the benefit of his considerable experience

bboy · 01-18-2006, 10:48 PM

hotrod participated in the aquamist forum. I used three 0.5 mm nozzles, two in the intercooler and one in the intake (a check valve prevents siphoning). The pump was at 7 bar. Adding the pre-turbo injection did increase the amount of air compressed as measured by AFR at the same boost pressure.

hotrod · 01-19-2006, 07:43 AM

Yes I have some posts on that forum discussion.

Cliffs notes version.

Per-turbo compressor WI can increase the effeciency of the compressor by several percent.

Its benefit is most noticable on undersized over stressed turbo's (ie stock WRX TD04-13T),or if inlet air temps are high and humidities are low (ie desert condtions)

It can lead to some compressor blade errosion if over used, and or excess water is sprayed.

Some small amounts of compressor errosion appears to have very little effect on compressor performance.

Do not attempt this --- unless your willing to read and understand the above posted discussion on pre-compressor injection on the aquamist site, and are willing to consider the compressor a wear part and replace it if you overdo the WI amount.

Larry

rewt · 01-19-2006, 12:25 PM

Yeah, I've been reading through the thread on the Aquamist site, and unfortunately, I don't think pre-turbo injection is something I'd benefit from in my specific circumstances...

On spool-up, my compressor is already pretty close to the surge line on the compressor map, so I'm thinking unless I want to only inject at high RPM, high flow, I think pre-turbo WI would lead to guaranteed compressor surge. It would have been a nice idea on my 20G though.

Thanks for all the input.

Freon · 01-19-2006, 01:09 PM

There is a thread on NASIOC where Richard from Aquamist has been posting. I think his username is RichardL, but the thread title has "aquamist" in it.

01-18-2006, 02:24 PM	#1
rewt Scooby Specialist Member#: 60794 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Somewhere in Northern DE Vehicle: 2007 Solstice GXP	Pre-turbo WI Hey everyone... I figured this section would be the best place for the question, so I hope I'm right. I basically was interested in opinions on the best way to accomplish pre-turbo WI... Is there a kit that already exists for this? If not, what sort of nozzle should be run? Based on reading about aiming the water at the compressor nut, I would assume a typical misting nozzle used for post-turbo WI would not work... or would it? Would I need to run more pressure in pre-turbo WI? Any information about this would be much appreciated. TIA * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

01-19-2006, 07:43 AM	#9
hotrod Scooby Specialist Member#: 14141 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: [email protected] @ 5800 ft on 13T Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX	Yes I have some posts on that forum discussion. Cliffs notes version. Per-turbo compressor WI can increase the effeciency of the compressor by several percent. Its benefit is most noticable on undersized over stressed turbo's (ie stock WRX TD04-13T),or if inlet air temps are high and humidities are low (ie desert condtions) It can lead to some compressor blade errosion if over used, and or excess water is sprayed. Some small amounts of compressor errosion appears to have very little effect on compressor performance. Do not attempt this --- unless your willing to read and understand the above posted discussion on pre-compressor injection on the aquamist site, and are willing to consider the compressor a wear part and replace it if you overdo the WI amount. Larry Last edited by hotrod; 01-19-2006 at 07:49 AM.

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01-18-2006, 02:34 PM	#2
bboy Scooby Specialist Member#: 56468 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 04 Improved STI Dirty White	No kit. Have to be careful of backflow so use check valves (boost will push water into intake). Use a mist, not a stream. You'll need very good boost control. I'd say this is an advanced form of water injection. I'd set up post-turbo water injection first before you turn to pre-turbo injection. Pre-turbo has it's place, but it definately complicates the whole set up. I'd be sure you are really comfortable with water injection in general before you turn to trying to compress more air with it.

01-18-2006, 02:44 PM	#3
TheMadScientist Scooby Guru Member#: 23717 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Beverly, MA Vehicle: 2005 Big red	http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267 You might have to sign up to view that. But it is ~20 pages about pre turbo WI. It is a good place to start. TMS

01-18-2006, 07:41 PM	#6
rewt Scooby Specialist Member#: 60794 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Somewhere in Northern DE Vehicle: 2007 Solstice GXP	My thanks to TMS; the thread on WI.info is great. Just the type of information and discussion I was looking for.

01-18-2006, 10:35 PM	#7
Uncle Scotty * Banned * Member#: 16200 Join Date: Mar 2002 Vehicle: OK buy Nates beans westcoastroasting.com	....IIRC, hotrod has done this....mebbe he will chime in and give us the benefit of his considerable experience

01-18-2006, 10:48 PM	#8
bboy Scooby Specialist Member#: 56468 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 04 Improved STI Dirty White	hotrod participated in the aquamist forum. I used three 0.5 mm nozzles, two in the intercooler and one in the intake (a check valve prevents siphoning). The pump was at 7 bar. Adding the pre-turbo injection did increase the amount of air compressed as measured by AFR at the same boost pressure.

01-19-2006, 12:25 PM	#10
rewt Scooby Specialist Member#: 60794 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Somewhere in Northern DE Vehicle: 2007 Solstice GXP	Yeah, I've been reading through the thread on the Aquamist site, and unfortunately, I don't think pre-turbo injection is something I'd benefit from in my specific circumstances... On spool-up, my compressor is already pretty close to the surge line on the compressor map, so I'm thinking unless I want to only inject at high RPM, high flow, I think pre-turbo WI would lead to guaranteed compressor surge. It would have been a nice idea on my 20G though. Thanks for all the input.

01-19-2006, 01:09 PM	#11
Freon Scooby Specialist Member#: 88322 Join Date: Jun 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Indianapolis, IN Vehicle: 2009 BMW 135i	There is a thread on NASIOC where Richard from Aquamist has been posting. I think his username is RichardL, but the thread title has "aquamist" in it.