Water/Methanol Injection FAQ

[testes1010]

there is greater velocity around a turn so it may actually be better for atomization.

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[bucket7788]

Unless the cross sectional area of the pipe changes, velocity will (averaged across the pipe's diameter) remain constant. Bends have nothing to do with average velocity other than lowering the average velocity of the entire system. Each bend induces a loss that negatively impacts system flow.

Turbulence may increase a bit, but I'm not going to break out my old fluid dynamics book to see how much.

I think that the most important concern is the possibility of the meth/H20 droplet impacting on the piping on the outside of the bend and rejoining the fine atomized droplets into larger drops, thus negating the atomization of the nozzle. Kind of like how a centrifugal separator works.

Buck

[STiEric]

right on thanks guys for the info I have the Perrin Blow-through and it has a 90 right infront of the TB so really just wanted to see if I need to place the nozzle right after it closer to the TP or would it help to have it back before the 90 degree bend. Just wanted to see what others have done and how it has worked out for them.

-Eric

[STiEric]

Originally Posted by bucket7788

I think that the most important concern is the possibility of the meth/H20 droplet impacting on the piping on the outside of the bend and rejoining the fine atomized droplets into larger drops, thus negating the atomization of the nozzle. Kind of like how a centrifugal separator works.

Buck

That was my real worrie and why I asked thanks Buck

[evilomen76]

anyone know how to hook the Snow meth up to the utec so it works with my map switch.So I can run meth on one map an no meth on the other???????????????????

[DonkeyPunch]

You will essentially need to have a water/meth tune on one map slot, and then a pump gas tune on another map slot. Then when you want to run just pump gas, just unhook the snow controller (little plug on the back) and then the pump wont turn on a a certain boost level, or MAP voltage.

DP

[bcblues]

Best to put your more conservative pump gas map in slot one, as this is the one that valet mode defaults to for fueling. If you never use valet mode, it doesn't really matter.

[evilomen76]

Originally Posted by bcblues

Best to put your more conservative pump gas map in slot one, as this is the one that valet mode defaults to for fueling. If you never use valet mode, it doesn't really matter.

So do I have to run any wires to the utec or just hook the meth up as if I had no utec? Going to turbo xs for tune an he said he would do like 5 pump gas tunes an 2 meth tunes I just don't know for sure how to hook the meth kit up so he can do it. I just don't want to run meth all the time because I have to order it. I've got the stage 2 MAP boost kit for larger turbo and it has the controller. also have map switch for utec.

[DonkeyPunch]

I know when I had UTEC, it only had 5 map slots, does it have 7 now? If so, 5 pump gas maps is cool, but how many different tunes do you need? I would get maybe high boost and low boost pump gas tunes, and high and low boost meth tunes. 4 Maps total. Less time on the dyno trying to perfect 7 maps. Also you can concentrate on 4 really good maps for what you need. If you need 7 different maps, go for it. I guess you know what you use the car for. But I digress, you don't have to hook up any other wires to the UTEC, unless you are using the spare solenoid on the UTEC to control the system. Are you using the UTEC to control the pump? Or are you using a Snow Performance varible controller either MAP or Boost Pressure. If you are using the snow controller, you would have have the UTEC selected to the appropriate MAP for methanol using the Map selector switch, and then make sure the meth controller is hooked up and set correctly based on your meth tune, and off you go. If the UTEC is controlling the pump, you have the have the pump signal wire hooked into the UTEC, so the UTEC can drive the pump based on parameters set by your tuner into the UTEC. If this is the case, he will have to select when the spare solenoid is not to be used (pump gas maps) (not sure if possible been a long time since UTEC, forgetting it's capabilities) Make sure you have him name the maps accordingly and tell you which maps are where so you don't mistakenly select the wrong map and run without meth when you should be.

DP

[evilomen76]

Originally Posted by DonkeyPunch

I know when I had UTEC, it only had 5 map slots, does it have 7 now? If so, 5 pump gas maps is cool, but how many different tunes do you need? I would get maybe high boost and low boost pump gas tunes, and high and low boost meth tunes. 4 Maps total. Less time on the dyno trying to perfect 7 maps. Also you can concentrate on 4 really good maps for what you need. If you need 7 different maps, go for it. I guess you know what you use the car for. But I digress, you don't have to hook up any other wires to the UTEC, unless you are using the spare solenoid on the UTEC to control the system. Are you using the UTEC to control the pump? Or are you using a Snow Performance varible controller either MAP or Boost Pressure. If you are using the snow controller, you would have have the UTEC selected to the appropriate MAP for methanol using the Map selector switch, and then make sure the meth controller is hooked up and set correctly based on your meth tune, and off you go. If the UTEC is controlling the pump, you have the have the pump signal wire hooked into the UTEC, so the UTEC can drive the pump based on parameters set by your tuner into the UTEC. If this is the case, he will have to select when the spare solenoid is not to be used (pump gas maps) (not sure if possible been a long time since UTEC, forgetting it's capabilities) Make sure you have him name the maps accordingly and tell you which maps are where so you don't mistakenly select the wrong map and run without meth when you should be.

DP

Pretty sure my map switch has 9 maps. Got the contoller for the meth.
The tuner is the one that said 5 gas maps an 2 meth.I think 2 an 2 would be fine.
I have to hook up the turbo xs solenoid to adjust the boost for the diff maps I'm guessing that will wire into the utec spare selonoid. I just don't want to run meth all the time I don't drag because I'm still on the stock tranny. I just wanted it for when someone wants some. Sorry I'm a newbee at this.

[DonkeyPunch]

Originally Posted by evilomen76

Pretty sure my map switch has 9 maps. Got the contoller for the meth.
The tuner is the one that said 5 gas maps an 2 meth.I think 2 an 2 would be fine.
I have to hook up the turbo xs solenoid to adjust the boost for the diff maps I'm guessing that will wire into the utec spare selonoid. I just don't want to run meth all the time I don't drag because I'm still on the stock tranny. I just wanted it for when someone wants some. Sorry I'm a newbee at this.

Here's the deal. Yes the switch is a 9 slot switch. But unless you have a really new UTEC, that I am not familiar with, you only have 5 map slots, and a valet map slot on the UTEC itself. The other swtich positions above 6 really don't do much IIRC. Now that being said, I haven't dealt with UTEC in over a good year or so, so maybe it has more map slots now, not sure.

DP

[evilomen76]

So if I unplugg the controller it won't spray but what about the vaccum hose thats hooked up will that hurt anything engine wise? Also what would be better for more HP meth or alky. Not sure what to do 100% or 50/50. Not sure what the snow pump will take heard 100% meth hurts pump not sure about alky. I have to order meth unless I run washer fluid. I can get alky for $4.75 a gallon.2005 wrx 20g 7cm all suporting mods. Anyone tried both to see hp differances?

[TAPOUT]

Originally Posted by DonkeyPunch

Here's the deal. Yes the switch is a 9 slot switch. But unless you have a really new UTEC, that I am not familiar with, you only have 5 map slots, and a valet map slot on the UTEC itself. The other swtich positions above 6 really don't do much IIRC. Now that being said, I haven't dealt with UTEC in over a good year or so, so maybe it has more map slots now, not sure.

DP

Definitely only 5 MAPs. Even on the new one.

[DonkeyPunch]

Originally Posted by TAPOUT

Definitely only 5 MAPs. Even on the new one.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was still the same as it always was. Either way, I think 5 maps is more than plenty for most though.

DP

[Dugansti]

great info thanks guys

[Wes_FSTGDB]

Going to be getting tuned this weekend, road tuned, but only option here in Alaska. Because the tune will last close to a year, considering PDX can only fly up once a year to do this, I want to make sure I go with the right option.

I have the SMC kit and just had the kit upgraded (it's been dormant for 2 years).

Anyways, should I get the tune for 50/50 water/meth mix or should I just get it tuned for denatured alcohol?

I read the FAQ, but I didn't see on which one most people prefer.

thanks,
-Wes

Going to post this in another thread, if this needs to be moved or deleted please do. Not sure if it was OK to ask this question here.

[bcblues]

There are only 5 "map slots" in the UTEC memory. Positions 6-9 on the switch rotate through the first 4 maps with Launch Control disabled.

[DonkeyPunch]

Originally Posted by Wes_FSTGDB

Going to be getting tuned this weekend, road tuned, but only option here in Alaska. Because the tune will last close to a year, considering PDX can only fly up once a year to do this, I want to make sure I go with the right option.

I have the SMC kit and just had the kit upgraded (it's been dormant for 2 years).

Anyways, should I get the tune for 50/50 water/meth mix or should I just get it tuned for denatured alcohol?

I read the FAQ, but I didn't see on which one most people prefer.

thanks,
-Wes

Going to post this in another thread, if this needs to be moved or deleted please do. Not sure if it was OK to ask this question here.

I really don't think you will notice the difference if you run denatured, or meth, as long as you stay at the same percentages all the time, or don't vary say more than 10% either water or meth/alky. This does however give you an oppritunity to tune with alky and meth, and see if there is any noticeable difference, and post results. Mix about a half gallon of mix of alky/water, and a half gallon of meth/water. Dyno both seperately, post any difference. I could then throw that into the FAQ.

DP

[Wes_FSTGDB]

Originally Posted by DonkeyPunch

I really don't think you will notice the difference if you run denatured, or meth, as long as you stay at the same percentages all the time, or don't vary say more than 10% either water or meth/alky. This does however give you an oppritunity to tune with alky and meth, and see if there is any noticeable difference, and post results. Mix about a half gallon of mix of alky/water, and a half gallon of meth/water. Dyno both seperately, post any difference. I could then throw that into the FAQ.

DP

No Dyno up here in Alaska. I love testing new things and would love doing that, but there's no way up here. The last time I ran alcohol I ran it straight with no mix. So do you reccomend tuning with an alky/water mix or just straight denatured alcohol?

Thank you for the help.

-Wes

[DonkeyPunch]

Originally Posted by Wes_FSTGDB

No Dyno up here in Alaska. I love testing new things and would love doing that, but there's no way up here. The last time I ran alcohol I ran it straight with no mix. So do you reccomend tuning with an alky/water mix or just straight denatured alcohol?

Thank you for the help.

-Wes

It depends on your power requirements, and how you want your car to run and be tuned. I run 50/50. I look at it from the standpoint of good cooling/good octane boost. I tend to think that if you decrease the amount of one and increase the amount of the other, you are giving up either cooling or octane. Doing that you can offset the decreased effects of the substance you took out of the ratio. IE more alky give you more alky, hence more octane, hence more det resistance. More water give you more cooling, hence lower cylinder temps, and less chance to det due to latent heat removal. I tend to think it is better to have more det resistance due to octane since the unburnt alky will take latent heat with it in evaporation and still acts to cool the cylinders a little. I am not sure I would ever run 100% alky or meth. A lot of people have done it here. You would have to search to see people's results and reliability with it. I would also say if you are going to run 100% to run a thicker oil IE 10W-40 or 15W-40/50. I have seen post where the alky or meth can break down the oil, reducing viscosity. I run 15W-40 in my engine.

-DP

[deli pastrami]

so whats the best way to get rid of the cabin/trunk smell after use? besides not using it ofc. anyways even if i don't it lasts a long time.

[bcblues]

There is no smell unless you spill it while filling the tank. If you are using 50-50 meth-water, there will be very little smell even if you do spill it. If you are spraying it on your intercooler and get carried away, I think you might could smell it a bit. Just go easier with the button on the intercooler sprayer.

[deli pastrami]

Originally Posted by bcblues

There is no smell unless you spill it while filling the tank. If you are using 50-50 meth-water, there will be very little smell even if you do spill it. If you are spraying it on your intercooler and get carried away, I think you might could smell it a bit. Just go easier with the button on the intercooler sprayer.

well i am 50/50 and it *is* spraying into the intercooler but what button are you talking about? I don't think the AEM kit came with a spray button. I just installed it and tuned it opensource. And naw I didn't spill any. I checked for leaks and everything seems fine.

I did run the car hard the other day for the first time since install so maybe that's it? Perhaps I'm not used to it? I've only had it for about 3 weeks now but i must say there came a point where it basically smelled like a nail salon if you know what i mean.

[DonkeyPunch]

Originally Posted by deli pastrami

well i am 50/50 and it *is* spraying into the intercooler but what button are you talking about? I don't think the AEM kit came with a spray button. I just installed it and tuned it opensource. And naw I didn't spill any. I checked for leaks and everything seems fine.

I did run the car hard the other day for the first time since install so maybe that's it? Perhaps I'm not used to it? I've only had it for about 3 weeks now but i must say there came a point where it basically smelled like a nail salon if you know what i mean.

I believe he is talking about the intercooler water spray button. That is for spraying water on the intercooler for the factory water spray on the STi. If this is about water injection, that button and that system is not applicable. If you are getting smell, where is your tank installed? If it is in the cabin, I would recommend relocating it. I would use the trunk, or engine bay if possible. You could do what I and many others have done which is use the factory windshield wiper tank for your water meth. You by all accounts are not putting any different chemical into that tank. Yes the meth concentration is a little higher, but you can still use it on your windshield at 50/50. So basically you just take the washer tank out, drill hole down at the bottom of the tank on the side, so you can fit a push to connect fitting in there with the tank mounted in its location, and then use some Household GOOP to glue the push to connect fitting into the tank. I wish I had a picture of my tank setup. My push to connect fitting is at the bottom front of the tank. From there the line runs into my drivers front fender well where my pump is mounted, then to the intercooler from the pump.

Any other questions, ask.

-DP

[DonkeyPunch]

EDIT: I will throw some cliff note questions into this post due to the amount of questions I keep seeing in the main forum that would mostly be answered if people sat down and read this thread. I just hate to see someone have a bad experience due to someone coming on here, and asking what is best and having something sold to them that they don't need, or isn't up to their needs. I think all the water meth vendors are good, but as vendors you should be asking these people what their needs/budget and power goals are, before just willy/nilly suggesting a system. I had to add these here instead of the original post due to length. I have exceeded 15,000 characters. And to think I hated writing when I was in High School.

So away we go...

Things to ask yourself when looking at a kit.... Only you can answer these questions...

What is/are my power goals?

Where/how am I going to install the kit?

How much does meth cost, and how much will this kit use on average driving?

What are my current power mods, and am I ready for meth yet? IE do I have the correct supporting mods? EM (engine management), injectors, aftermarket exhaust, etc. (Granted not all of the previous are required, but you will get much more out water/meth with that stuff.) EM is pretty much required.

How technical is the kit to install, and am I technically minded enough to do the install?

How much $$ do I have to spend on the initial cost of teh kit (reference the question above for this also...do I need someone to install this for me?)

What are my intentions to upgrade (mods and water meth kit) in the future. (Am I going to need bigger jets, a bigger pump, a new kit or a re-tune)?

How easy is meth to aquire around where I live? Do I need to have it shipped in?

How much development went into the kit I am looking at? Good failsafes? Proven Gains? Simple install? Good packaging (ease of install)? General kit operation?

If anyone can think of any other C/N questions I need to add here. Let me know.