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Old 04-12-2006, 01:09 AM   #1
PDXTuning
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Question 595whp with the GT37 eh - Access ECU/custom blow through MAF

At our little open house this weekend we decided to throw Timís STI with the GT37 on the dyno to see what it would do. As some of you might remember, I ran a GT37/GT40 hybrid last year, which used a GPMoto built header/uppipe, downpipe, and Ti Exhaust. Since I am going to use the full GT40 on the H6, I split apart the 3740, and mated the parts back together with the 4037 to get back the original GT37 and GT40 turbo. Since Iím not going to use the GT37, we put it along with the header/uppipe/downpipe into Tim's STI to see what it would do.

Tim had a COBB protuner pump gas map, so we took the fuel map and leaned it out real quick, and added a bit of timing, threw in some C16 and turned up the boost. Both the pump fuel tune and the C-16 tune were done with Access ECU protuner software. The tune is not optimized due to lack ot time but C16 is very forgiving anyways. I was not really sure what to expect. This has a 1.12 AR hot side and is twin scroll. It is not a ball bearing turbo, and as such is pretty inexpensive. You can rebuild each piece individually, and swap in different wheels and housings.

Tim hasnít gotten around to getting his DTEC installed, so he threw a manual boost controller on it, which worked. The only downside of the manual is that it doesnít provide positive pressure to the second port on the external, and it really doesnít hold the boost flat all the way to redline. No matter what level (18psi-32psi), the boost always peaks a bit more, then rolls a bit to redline. Certainly we will get the DTEC on there and see what we can do.

At about 32-33psi, falling to 29psi at redline, it peaked a bit shy of 580whp uncorrected, 596whp corrected. Take a look at the plots:

The purple is the GT37, and the yellow is the FP Red Tim had on before, also on C16.

Non corrected graphs: (meaningful)


SAE corrected graphs: (meaningless)


That is 564 lb-ft ( 578 lb-ft corr ) of Torque. Thatís pretty snappy. The twin scroll helps the spool a bit, but it is still laggy as hell. Once the boost rolls in, it feels pretty scary fast, especially on street tires. Right at the torque peak the tires just rip loose in 4th gear. Iím sure it will be fun to drag race, and Tim is looking forward to the rain going away.

A couple of other observations:

The car still has the single plate Exede Hypersingle clutch, which is at a state of complete failure. On the dyno, every other pull it would break completely free, and if I ran right away again, while the clutch was still hot, it would hold for a pull. On the street, 4th held every other pull,and 5th breaks free right away. Tim has a Twin plate sitting on the shelf, but we just have not had time to get it in there.

This was using a new prototype blow-thru maf we made, 3.25" ID (corrected 4-21-06) diameter with some custom placement and design, and it didnít hit 5.0Vs (~4.7 volts at 580 whp). Very happy about that! This was using the Access Port with the ProTune, MAF all the way.

The mods are the usual: Perrin FMIC and Perrin Injectors, the turbokit, the block has CP pistons that we slapped in, plus we balanced the motor before reassembly. Stock heads and cams of course. No WI running right now.

These CPs are VERY loose, perhaps on the 4 thou side. As a result, when the car is cold, it smokes quite a bit, and if you jump on it much at all while cold, it burns oil. Once the pistons get hot, very hot, the motor runs perfectly. We did perhaps 10 pulls at 580whp, all in a row, no real delay, and the motor purrs like a kitten. Like the CP guys say, they are race pistons.

When driving, the most noticeable thing other then the peak torque is the feeling that the HP stays pretty flat once on. The larger turbine side shows no signs of letting up. Since this is the stock valvetrain, we didnít really push it above 7k, but from what I can tell, it looks like the HP will keep flat for a while longer.

Since upgrade parts are so cheap, we are going to throw on the GT4088 compressor wheel and compressor housing and run it, just to see how the GT4088 compressor compares.


I posted a while back a few compressor maps, so you can see how the GT37 compares to the GT35R. Have a look.


Quote:
Take a look at these graphs I put together. These graphs show airflow on the 2.5L (BLUE), and 3.0L (RED), for 4000,5000,6000,7000 RPM at 16,20,24,and 28 PSI.

GT3582R


To read the map, the four lines of dots (going up) are the four boost levels. The for dots on each line (going right) represent 4000,5000,6000 and 7000 RPM. As you can see, the 35R is a pretty good fit. However, notice that at 28psi at 7000 RPM, the H6 is off the right edge, while the 2.5L is in the middle. On the converse, at 6000 RPM the H6 is right in the middle, while the H4 is almost off the edge.

GT37


The 37 is a good match for the 2.5L, but would be a little smaller for the higher RPM on the H6. Due to the slightly better surge side, it should work well.

GT4088


This looks pretty ideal for the 3.0L. The GT40 has a very wide compressor map, and has good efficiency even for the high rpm 28 psi load.

GT3076


You can see that the GT3076 is a perfect match for the 2.5L. On the 3.0L, it would work well at medium boost levels, and probably make great pump gas power.


Anyways, an interesting experiment chaps.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
PDXTuning.com
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Last edited by PDXTuning; 04-21-2006 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:20 AM   #2
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Holy cow! Those are some impressive numbers!
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:26 AM   #3
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Great work guys! It was awesome to see this beast on the dyno even with the slipping clutch I look forward to the compressor wheel switch to see what it will do.

And personal thank you to Tim Bailey for taking me out in this car, what a trip!! My car has yet been able to get me aroused since then
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:22 AM   #4
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Exciting news and, as always, a great run-down, Jeff. Thanks for the data.

Wanted to clarify: is the header stock or off the GPMoto setup?
kamano
This is for Tim:

Last edited by ka mano; 04-12-2006 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:31 AM   #5
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Pretty cool no WI was going on with those HP levels
I need to get my **** running !
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:31 AM   #6
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how much whp does a gt35r give?
maxed out of course.
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Old 04-12-2006, 04:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my_sti_1
how much whp does a gt35r give?
maxed out of course.
Max whp from a 35r is going to depend maily on hot side (0.82 or 1.06), and valvetrain upgrades. and of course, fuel, tune, and dyno...

Stock block/heads/0.82....(this is just an approximation) 420pump/530c16

Stock block/heads/1.06....(again, just an estimate) 440pump/550c16

The EJ257 responds well to a larger hotside, hence the reason for increased power with the 1.06....you can expect slower spool (obviously) and it will really shine up top with some cams/head porting.

The larger hotside is also the reason that the GT37 (1.12 a/r) makes more power than the 35r(which actually has a larger compressor)

Hope this answered your question

And sorry Im Im getting off topic.

Those anre some impressive numbers! Great work guys! any plans to throw that twin disk in any time soon?
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Old 04-12-2006, 09:58 AM   #8
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Kudos!
H6? didnt say in the post.
I think im going to stick with the gt35R for now and see waht type of numbers we can get out of it with my setup. Im looking for 1/4 mile numbers, not necc dyno numbers. Im hoping the 35R can get us into the mid 10's.
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Old 04-12-2006, 10:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c'dalerider
I think im going to stick with the gt35R for now and see waht type of numbers we can get out of it with my setup. Im looking for 1/4 mile numbers, not necc dyno numbers. Im hoping the 35R can get us into the mid 10's.
me too but with high 10's.

thanks for posting your results with the gt37 BTW.
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Old 04-12-2006, 11:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ka mano
Exciting news and, as always, a great run-down, Jeff. Thanks for the data.
Wanted to clarify: is the header stock or off the GPMoto setup?[indent]
Fixed that above. The header is a GPMoto header, as it is a twin scroll setup and each scroll comes from a R+L bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my_sti_1
how much whp does a gt35r give?
maxed out of course.
We have not ran a GT35R on this dyno yet, but certainly will soon. I'll post all of the data I get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrubino83
Max whp from a 35r is going to depend maily on hot side (0.82 or 1.06), and valvetrain upgrades. and of course, fuel, tune, and dyno...
Stock block/heads/0.82....(this is just an approximation) 420pump/530c16
Stock block/heads/1.06....(again, just an estimate) 440pump/550c16
The EJ257 responds well to a larger hotside, hence the reason for increased power with the 1.06....you can expect slower spool (obviously) and it will really shine up top with some cams/head porting.
The larger hotside is also the reason that the GT37 (1.12 a/r) makes more power than the 35r(which actually has a larger compressor)
Those anre some impressive numbers! Great work guys! any plans to throw that twin disk in any time soon?
That was the real question I was looking at getting some data on. Spool on this setup seems to be on par with the 1.06 hotside, but with less back pressure.

While the GT35R has a great 'peak' value for the compressor, that doesn't really make it 'bigger' in EJ257 speak. If you look at the compressor map, 6000 rpm at 28psi both the 35R and the 37 are in the 76ish % efficeincy (although it looks like the 35R is actually a bit more), however neither are close to the 65 lb/min peak. Also, the 37 compressor map is taller (reaches 3.5 PR with more air flow), which is much more suited for a small motor at high boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c'dalerider
Kudos!
H6? didnt say in the post.
I think im going to stick with the gt35R for now and see waht type of numbers we can get out of it with my setup. Im looking for 1/4 mile numbers, not necc dyno numbers. Im hoping the 35R can get us into the mid 10's.
EJ257 with CP Pistons.

The 35R has been proven by many, and I certainly still like it. However with the right setup, the 37 offers some very good options. The large hotside may allow a more consistant power band to higher rpm, especially with the addition of NOS. The clutch will go in right away, as the car really isn't drivable with the current clutch.

Cheers,

Jeff
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Old 04-12-2006, 11:47 AM   #11
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The best thing about this setup was riding in it. I had to buy new shorts for the ride back to Seattle, after riding in this thing. This post and many others really showcase the real in-depth knowledge of the guys at PDXTuning. I feel bad for people in other parts of the country that can not take full advantage of what these guys have to offer. They need to chance there slogan, to Knowledge is a lot of power.
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Old 04-12-2006, 11:52 AM   #12
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i feel bad for us east coasters that don't have people like pdx...

sick numbers guys. congras
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:12 PM   #13
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Very very impressive. Great job PDX!!!

-Matt
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:22 PM   #14
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Impressive! Has anyone tinkered with the GT37 with a VNT exhaust housing yet?
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:37 PM   #15
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omfg.... 4k - 5.5k... what a ride
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousDX
i feel bad for us east coasters that don't have people like pdx...

sick numbers guys. congras

True story ^ im only in arizona and i have to say PDX is the shiznit if i was closer they would be the shop for me.

Thanks again for the info guys!!!
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:00 PM   #17
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There's too much useful information in your post. Could you run it through the Ispeed/Crawford converter to confuse us please?

Thanks,
Frank
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:37 PM   #18
ka mano
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...rrrrOUWW!
ka mano
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:01 PM   #19
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anyone @ pdx: what is your opinion on the gpmoto twin scroll header? They are the only ones that make a twin scroll header for Garrett turbos correct? Has there ever been thought to using a JDM twin scroll header but with a custom twin scroll uppipe? Or are the aftermarket twin scroll headers are of sufficient quality
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:06 PM   #20
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Holy nice numbers!!! When is this Perrin Blow thru going to be available?

Engine bay pics?

Last edited by dream; 04-12-2006 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:25 PM   #21
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that is one powerful motor, can i have it?
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Old 04-12-2006, 04:14 PM   #22
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Nice Work!
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Old 04-12-2006, 07:13 PM   #23
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Any plans to take this to the wrx vs evo shoot out?
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Old 04-12-2006, 07:16 PM   #24
ka mano
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by B
...can i have it?
A: You asking for a dyno plot or a time slip?

B: I'm asking for The Car.

A: You want The Car?

B: I think I'm entitled to It.

A: You can't handle The Car.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:21 PM   #25
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Sweet, Jeff! Unbelievable.
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