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Old 10-25-2003, 12:41 AM   #1
MarkD
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Default Mark Mitsubishi in Scottsdale AZ makes me ashamed to be a "Mark".

Mark Mitsubishi in Scottsdale AZ makes me ashamed to be a "Mark".

I was the legimate winner of an ebay auction last night (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438028950) for a Evo. I've been in the market for a STi or an Evo. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. A primary attraction for this car was the final $26200 e-bay price for an untitiled car.

Josh Jones at Mark Mitsubishi in Scottsdale AZ emailed me after the auction had ended and informed me that the car had been sold to an autobroker for a greater amount. The auction did not end early and was not cancelled.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Mitsubishi
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:30 PM
Subject: 2003 evo


I have to appologize that evo was bid by an auto broker for
32987.00. I do have other evos in stock. Again I appoligize

Thank You
Johs Jones

I consider this very unethical behavior.

Mark Mitsubishi in Scottsdale AZ apparently was awarded Mitsubishi's Diamond Chapter of Excellence. If Mitsubishi awards this dealer Diamond status, I do not know if I could ever recommend a Mitsubishi product to anyone.

I called Mark Mitsubishi late Friday afternoon because Mark Mitsubishi never contacted me via any method, despite several e-mails on my part requesting same.

I spoke with Josh Jones, the internet sales manager. Mr. Jones was fairly professional in demeanor giving the circumstances.

He informed me that he would not sell the e-bay car to me at the auction price because it was worth far more than that. He said the car was already sold to another buyer. He said he was a "business man" and got a better offer so he took it. I informed him that he was in violation of e-bay rules. He told ME to read the fine print which allowed his actions. I told him he was under certain contractual obligations when he places an item on e-bay and he did not comply with them. He also said he was very busy and did not get a chance to cancel the auction after receiving this alleged better offer. He informed me the car was "gone" or "sold" and asked what I wanted him to do.

Mr. Jones said he was not going to sell me the car because I threaten him and then mentioned a letter of complaint I had send to Mitsubishi Motors NA. I never threatened anyone at any time - I did however file formal complaints with the Better Business Bureau, e-bay.com, and Mitsubishi Motor NA. I forwarded copies of same to Mr. Jones.

I told him I thought I should be the legitimate winner. He told me to give him negative feedback on e-bay.

I asked if he was refusing to take my deposit on the e-bay car. He said he was refusing the deposit.

The call ended.

I called the dealership the evening of the auction aproximately 1 hour or less before the auction closed. The salesman who I talked to did not mention the red e-bay car with leather and DVD was sold.

I'm not sure but my brother is probably ashamed to be "Scott" for fear on having some connection to Mark Mitsubishi in SCOTTsdale AZ.

Just venting. Thanks.

Mark D
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Last edited by MarkD; 10-25-2003 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 10-25-2003, 12:53 AM   #2
T-WRX
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Thumbs down

Unethical.

Just another example of why we don't like car salesman.

"Oops, I meant to screw you."
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Old 10-25-2003, 12:53 AM   #3
MrSwede
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I am not a professional regarding Ebay transactions, but it does sound illegal to me. It would be one thing if the price listed was a mistake, but to fail to honor the price that the auction ended with is not right. I always see dealers writing that the auction is a "binding contract" and that dead-beat bidders will be prosecuted. I would think this would apply to dead-beat sellers as well. Many people are under the impression that transactions in "cyber-space" are not accountable to the laws of the land. Personally, I would call a lawyer with Internet experience to see if something could be done. If not, chalk it up as your typical negative car salesman experience and buy an STi!
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Old 10-25-2003, 01:13 AM   #4
Zornorph
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that e-bay page doesn't work - got another ?

CALL (and speak to a human) e-bay and find out what you can do to f this guy.
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Old 10-25-2003, 01:24 AM   #5
MarkD
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Perform a general ebay search for "2438028950" and you should get there.
(full link [http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438028950].

Last edited by MarkD; 10-25-2003 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 10-25-2003, 02:12 AM   #6
kami333
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zornorph
that e-bay page doesn't work - got another ?

CALL (and speak to a human) e-bay and find out what you can do to f this guy.
Good luck with that, it's nearly impossible to get anything other than their canned automated responses. Though if you are a power seller you actually get pretty good treatment.

Depending on how far you are willing to pursue this, you should be able to get their account suspended for breaching the TOS at the very least (though since they have a negative feedback account they may just cut their losses and start another account). Other than that, you can try for mediation through Safe Harbor, or contacting an attorney and sueing them for breach of contract or something along those lines.

Good luck.

PS tip on leaving feedback, it's much more informative just to state why you are leaving the neg and not some emotional cry. Potential bidders would be much better off learning "Seller refused to honor auction, stated that car was sold to outside buyer for higher price" or something along those lines.
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Old 10-25-2003, 02:52 AM   #7
MarkD
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Default

kami333:

RE: ebay negative feedback

I went for something silly that I thought may stick in people's mind a little longer.

MARK MITSUBISHI MARK MITSUBISHI MARK MITSUBISHI

All the relevant info is there -- it's simple -- whatever their reasons or justifications --

MARK MITSUBISHI backed out of the transaction.

Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2003, 03:09 AM   #8
kami333
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I see what you mean, but from my perspective being silly just means that I'm going to file your feedback away as being less than trustworthy compared to one that is being serious (especially coming from a zero feedback bidder, nothing personal) and logical, just like I would tend to ignore one that was in all caps saying something like, "OMG HE RIPPED ME OFF DON'T DEAL WITH HIM"

I'm just saying that "MARK MITSUBISHI backed out of the transaction" (exactly what you just said in your post) would have looked like a more "professional" feedback.
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Old 10-25-2003, 04:19 AM   #9
JewPac42
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That is lame. Take it as far as you can in the lagel system.
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Old 10-25-2003, 09:33 AM   #10
Wizzy
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This guys a dink - it clearly states in his "fine" print that they reserve the right to NOTIFY you if they were canceling the auction

The bidding ended at 6:44pm and they sent you an email at 9:30pm - unacceptable

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2438028950

NOTE

We reserve the right to notify bidders and cancel this auction AT ANY TIME. We shall not be held liable for any such cancellation and/or closure. We reserve the right to cancel bids from those with excessive negative feedback. We shall not be held liable for any such cancellation and/or closure. Thanks for bidding and Good Luck !!!
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Old 10-25-2003, 10:09 AM   #11
Zornorph
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I think everybody reading this should send Mark Mitsu a nastygram via e-mail to let them know that they are in trouble.

I did - you can too!

Dude - that car has 210 miles on it - it's a demo model - it's been beaten. You should get it for 26K.

Get a lawyer. Mark might have to pay your legal costs, depending on the laws in AZ.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:27 AM   #12
SinhCredible
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TAKE IT TO COURT!!
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:37 AM   #13
DrD
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Welcome to the wonderful world that eBay has become of late - he clearly violated eBay rules, and also violated his own statement in "the fine print" that "We reserve the right to notify bidders and cancel this auction AT ANY TIME" - how do you cancel an auction which is already complete? If they had a bottom line in mind, they should have used the "reserve" function, that's what it's there for. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that eBay will do anything other than slap-on-the-wrist email to them, and seeing as this is their first auction, they really don't have a feedback rating to protect - they were probably just testing the water on this one - if they want to try again, they'll just go open another account using the email from a different one of their sales people.

I have had a number of auctions (though for much lower value items) where the seller backed out after the fact, and even more where they get nervous and cancel the auction an hour before it ends... it's just the way it works - eBay can't really do much to police it, and the sellers get away with it. It sucks, but has become very commonplace.

You should post this in the southwest forum (which might as well be the Phoenix, AZ forum...) and see if someone can do a driveby and see if the car is still there.

The fact that the car has so many miles on it should set of flags - it's a demo and could have been thrashed a bit - but they have sunk a fair chunk of change into the car in cosmetic upgrades, so at $26k it may indeed have been cheaper than they could really afford to let it go... but as I said, they should have set a reserve price, then. By listing at $10k with no reserve, they were pretty much stating that they would go that low on the car (which is insanity, but that's neither here nor there)

I think you have really done all you can at this point - pressing onward legally, etc. is just going to get you madder, and will probably not result in the end result you want (i.e., that car at $26k).
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Old 10-25-2003, 12:20 PM   #14
XRW URABUS
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Sounds like an internet version of "Bait and Switch".
They probably had no intention of selling it at that low price and that they forgot to monitor and cancel the bid before it closed.
I also wonder if that so called auto broker really exisists.
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Old 10-26-2003, 01:37 PM   #15
avzay
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he doesnt just get away with it
after the auction is over the seller has to pay certain percentage of the final sale price to ebay.
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Old 10-26-2003, 05:50 PM   #16
pleasenoSTIckershock
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Talk about a load of BS... really sorry to see something so unethically and blatantly wrong. That car was worth way more with the custom tv/audio set-up than $26K - and for all of you saying 210 miles it was probably beaten to death, I doubt it, and regardless, it comes with a full warranty. I would definitely get some legal advice and see if you have a case, and if not, picket them & or spread the word, and scare off a bunch of their potential customers... and let them know you will continue to discuss your experience with everyone you know until they make the situation right (evo 8 with same mods or their $ value at the price you won the auction at). Do not let them get away with this!!!

Good luck with everything.....

Mike
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:40 AM   #17
MarkD
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Recently I received an e-mail from ebay. The e-mail said due to privacy issues that ebay would not reveal its determination re my complaint against MARK MITSUBISHI aka marks _auto, but was reviewing the situation.

Prior to my complaint, MARK MITSUBISHI had two vehicles for sale on ebay. I believe the second vehicle was a Camaro. If I am correct, the MARK MITSUBISHI listing for the Camaro was withdrawn from ebay prior to its scheduled completion time.

I have no idea if this was voluntary or involuntary.

Last edited by MarkD; 10-28-2003 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 10-30-2003, 04:20 PM   #18
gr8-wrx
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I showed this thread to a co-worker of mine and he had a few suggestions that sounded really good:

1) Make a copy of the eBay auction page (save it as a file and then print it out). This way you'll always have a record of it in case eBay decides to delete the auction.

2) eBay doesn't really care about you or your transaction with the dealer. eBay DOES care about the public perception of their auctions. You might want to post this info on multiple forums (evo, mitsubishi, cartalk, etc) to get the word out. eBay wants folks to think their auctions are legit.
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Old 10-30-2003, 05:40 PM   #19
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dude, if I were you I'd tell everyone and there mother about this. Even post in the town's newspaper where Mark Mitsu is, and state that his dealership isn't honest one bit.
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Old 10-30-2003, 06:30 PM   #20
Chapel
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its on VWVortex/Mwerks/Speedarena
there's 110,000 users
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Old 10-30-2003, 07:43 PM   #21
rexpdx
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It's now on Anandtech, that 120k users right there.
I hope Mark Mitsubishi enjoys all this free advertising.
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Old 10-30-2003, 08:32 PM   #22
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You should contact the local tv stations and in az if you don't live there. Make a big fuzz about it so people will see how these guys run the business. It'll also put ebay in the lime light as well. If things turns out the way I think ebay and mark mits. will have to do something to stay away from bad press.
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Old 10-30-2003, 08:50 PM   #23
sabbosab334
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Quote:
Originally posted by rexpdx
It's now on Anandtech, that 120k users right there.
I hope Mark Mitsubishi enjoys all this free advertising.
Yea, I posted this info at Anandtech - what this dealership did is just CRAP. Members of AT are contacting local newspapers in AZ. I hope Mark Mitsu. goes down, those sons of bitches!!

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Old 10-30-2003, 09:17 PM   #24
MercenaryForHire
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As I said on Anandtech ...

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

- M4H
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Old 10-30-2003, 09:18 PM   #25
MercenaryForHire
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselstation
it's now on my forums (forums.dieselstation.com) as well as genmay.net

mf*ers can't get away with stuff like this.
GenMay ought to do some damage.

Someone with an account at SomethingAwful, get this into GBS, stat.

Hmm, wonder if we can get this up on /. somehow? Tagline of "Online Fraud" perhaps ...

- M4H
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